Flate Plate Heat Exchanger
March 27, 2006 - 10:17pm
I'm looking into one of these flat plate heat exchangers and am wondering what kind of success folks have had with these? Also, how do they mount? There doesn't seem to be a way to mount these from the pictures I see.
dave
-------------------------
2001 Golf GLS (soon to be gresecar'd)
83 1.6 Vanagon (custom converted, sold, but still runnning)
March 30, 2006 - 12:09am
#2
Here is a link to a few Road Test and installs of Flat Plate Heat Exchagers you folks may want to read about!
Omar
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/642100603...
here is a note from O.K from the south
16 plate copper
Omar-
I am really digging the plate heat exchanger that you sent. I installed it in an 84 300TD with the setup that I drew for you. The car runs cool, right around 85 C. I am getting very good performance out of the heat exchanger and will probably using those instead of the vegtherm. The veggie heats fast, it runs in at a steady 160 F, no matter what speed I am running even with the heat on full blast in 20 degree weather. It runs sometimes at mid to high 150s up to high 160s.
thank you so much for sending it my way.
May 21, 2006 - 11:49am
#3
we have a few 20 plate Heat Exchagers left at $85
PS...we also have 26 plate in stock
have a good weekend O
www.omarsales.com
May 21, 2006 - 7:09pm
#4
i have a 16 plate fphe and i get a 10F drop on wvo compared to the coolant heat.
omar claims that i can get a higher wvo temp with more plates - i am not sure how that can make sense but he might have tested it already.
hope this info helps.
evan
-------------------------
96 Jetta 1.9TD filter in trunk, HOH, 16 fphe, inj heaters. oil is 150F - 160F before IP , Injection line Heater (175F Return)
(Wife's) 2002 TDi looking to replicate the same setup but always considering new setups by members
May 22, 2006 - 10:42pm
#5
have you insolated your HE and lines? you can gain 2 plates by Insolating the HE and lines... read thru this tread and see the install photo's
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/642100603...
May 22, 2006 - 11:09pm
#6
Brazed plate heat exchangers are without a doubt the best way to go it makes sense to run wvo/hot water through thin plates to transfer heat. coiled pipes wraped round a filter or water pipe are very ineficent.
May 23, 2006 - 3:35am
#7
yes and if there was just 1 very small problem with a weld on one of those plates you get coolant mixing in with fuel. No thank you not unless they all come with a pressure test certificate ensuring that each unit gets tested to make sure that even under higher then normal pressures the welds will all hold up. I just am not willing to take that kind of a chance with my car.
-------------------------
01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Running on Veg since summer 04 still learning new tricks.
11mm IP + lift pump = POWER
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html
May 23, 2006 - 6:56am
#8
TDIguy, sounds like you haven't done your research. copper brazed ss fphe's are rated to something like 200 to 300 psi (from memory) and each unit is pressure tested from the factory.
Coolant system pressure shouldn't be more than15 psi and you should be protected by the radiator cap. Even if the cap fails, the radiator or hose connections will prolly blow before the fphe.
If I were you, I'd be more concerned about the HIH tee fitting in your tank leaking coolant into your fuel. I would not be able to sleep with a potential time bomb like that waiting.
May 23, 2006 - 7:29am
#9
I just installed one of OMAR'S 16 plate heat exchangers,Outside temp was 42 degrees and with in 3 mins I was up to 170 degrees,This heat exchanger ROCKS.
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sergio
May 23, 2006 - 7:38am
#10
Has anyone out there had a coolant/fuel mixture leak with one of these?
-------------------------
2001 Golf GLS (soon to be greased)
83 1.6 Vanagon (custom converted, sold, but still runnning strong)
May 23, 2006 - 10:02am
#11
these things are made for high presure steam heat transfer they have been used for air con and refrigeration for years I have had copper pipes split and rubber hoses burst but you wont break a brazed plate heat exchanger unless you are particualy stupid. I use one on every conversion I do. it beats the hell out of coiled copper and the heat transfer is fast and 98% eficient
May 23, 2006 - 10:48am
#12
I plan on getting a batch of the 26 platers myself, they sound promising, would like to be rid of my desuperheater coil aka "Frybrid HE" as it seemed to actually cause a lowering of temp in some cold weather last winter..
-------------------------
Except for helping end slavery,fascism,nazism and communism, war has never solved anything.
May 23, 2006 - 3:34pm
#13
Tom, are you planning on doing a bulk purchase of the 26 plate exchangers?
May 23, 2006 - 7:11pm
#14
Yes I am...We can take this to my forum..www.greenroadsupply.com/forum
-------------------------
Except for helping end slavery,fascism,nazism and communism, war has never solved anything.
May 23, 2006 - 7:45pm
#15
Any heat exchanger can posibally lower the temp on a cold day. The trick is trying to insulate all the components to try and keep everything at the same temp as the coolant and to try and insulate the radiator in cold weather from the very cold wind by using some wind screening. Myself i am thinking about buying a extra gril for my car and using some fiberglass to cover up the openings in the grill so i will end up with a summer and a winter grill.
I also don't question the materials a fphe is made from i question the weld. Personally i didnt know they were all accually pressure tested never saw that posted in the adds i looked at that they were pressure tested individually.
-------------------------
01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Running on Veg since summer 04 still learning new tricks.
11mm IP + lift pump = POWER
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html
May 23, 2006 - 8:10pm
#16
Flat Plate Heat exchanger, SUS 316 Stainless Steel Plates,
Pure copper brazing, under vacuum, Max Temp 392F (200C)
Max Pressure 435 psi (30 bar),Dimensions: 7.6 x 3.1 x 1.8 inches
how much pressure is in your wvo system ?
manufactures warranty is one year.
usually if a HE leaks it is from the side not thru the stainless steel plate.
Omar
www.omarsales.com
May 23, 2006 - 8:33pm
#17
Quote:
Originally posted by: TDIguy
Any heat exchanger can posibally lower the temp on a cold day. The trick is trying to insulate all the components to try and keep everything at the same temp as the coolant and to try and insulate the radiator in cold weather from the very cold wind by using some wind screening. Myself i am thinking about buying a extra gril for my car and using some fiberglass to cover up the openings in the grill so i will end up with a summer and a winter grill.
I also don't question the materials a fphe is made from i question the weld. Personally i didnt know they were all accually pressure tested never saw that posted in the adds i looked at that they were pressure tested individually.
-------------------------
01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Running on Veg since summer 04 still learning new tricks.
11mm IP + lift pump = POWER
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html
Yea I agree, But I am thinking that with additional heating surfaces the flat plate provides I would have a lesser loss of heat. Im no big fan of insulating, not that it doesnt work, I just hate doing it...(lazy arent I?)...the less I need the better
-------------------------
Except for helping end slavery,fascism,nazism and communism, war has never solved anything.
April 9, 2007 - 9:48am
#18
any other road test data on flat plate heat exchangers ?
April 16, 2007 - 8:21am
#19
April 16, 2007 - 5:39pm
#20
I put a 30 plate HE in before the valves and it kept the VO above 160F when it was 10 below zero this winter in NorColorado. I don't have a vegetherm. Sdeck lives and drives in this area on VO and uses a vegetherm(?).
I wanted to stick with plumbing and not wiring.
-------------------------
2003 Dodge Cummins/Greasel Voyager tank, FASS pump on diesel side, FASS pump on the VO side, 2 Hydraforce valves and a 30 plate heat exchanger.
2004 Jetta Wagon TDI bioD
April 17, 2007 - 7:46am
#21
do you have any photo's of your wvo set up you can post?
How is that Fass pump working with WVO?
Omar
April 17, 2007 - 2:34pm
#22
Yea, they do work well.
Pic is of 03 Dodge, The only thing I don't like about this FPHE is the 3/4NPT male connections which are kind of huge, but it was a freebie so I can live with it. The HE bolts to a bracket which is bolted to valve cover plastic cover with backing plate behind it (appears closer to exhaust manifold then it is). The new GC truck valve asm can also be seen (prototype, productions model about 1/3 smaller). These CR Dodges are great, we'll have the complete kit soon.
I also have a FPHE in my 300TD, helps alot in VT winters, way more effective then any 12V heater.
-------------------------
MarkP
April 17, 2007 - 7:52pm
#23
I put my H.E. in the same area, as well as the valves in the picks, I sure did scratch my head for awhile and then one morning it was crystal clear. I also installed a purge timer(30sec), so it's either Diesel or Greasel.
-------------------------
2003 Dodge Cummins/Greasel Voyager tank, FASS pump on diesel side, FASS pump on the VO side, 2 Hydraforce valves and a 30 plate heat exchanger.
2004 Jetta Wagon TDI bioD
April 18, 2007 - 9:51am
#24
I still have a couple 26 plate copper brazed Kaori FPHE is anyone is interested $70 + shipping..
-------------------------
Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
April 18, 2007 - 11:39am
#25
Quote:
Originally posted by: reeko
I put a 30 plate HE in before the valves and it kept the VO above 160F when it was 10 below zero this winter in NorColorado. I don't have a vegetherm. Sdeck lives and drives in this area on VO and uses a vegetherm(?).
I wanted to stick with plumbing and not wiring.
-------------------------
2003 Dodge Cummins/Greasel Voyager tank, FASS pump on diesel side, FASS pump on the VO side, 2 Hydraforce valves and a 30 plate heat exchanger.
2004 Jetta Wagon TDI bioD
Reeko is right. I run a vegtherm std in my 03 Jetta. It helps, but was not sufficient without the TDIHeater, heavy insulation, and radiator block in single digit temps. These TDIs just don't generate much excess heat. I've noticed in traffic, the heater loses a significant amount of its output on cold days, sometimes enough that the blowing air is downright cool. That makes me wonder if the coolant actually is cooling off enough to lower the temp of grease in a FPHE. The electric heat advantage is fewer plumbing connections/potential problems and heat regardless of coolant temp. Downside is power draw. I had a filter heater I built to fit inside the GC heater coil, worked pretty well, but the insulationing h-temp tape kept weraing away and shorting the nichrome. Working on the beta version....
Reeko, where did you get the FASS pumps? I'm thinking about a Rocki-mod tied to the vegtherm but keep seeing issues with the Facet pumps failing.
-------------------------
sdeck
2003 Jetta TDI, GreaseCar kit, veg-therm std, TDIHeater, >15,000 veggie miles and counting!
"If you make it idiot proof, nature will make a better idiot"
April 18, 2007 - 9:13pm
#26
Steve
Ats Diesel Performance(303) 431-79734295 Kipling St, Wheat Ridge is where I picked up one of them and the VO pump from Shane at roverhybrids.com. If you shop around online you might find some deals. dieselpp.com makes the fass pumps.
Reeko
-------------------------
2003 Dodge Cummins/Greasel Voyager tank, FASS pump on diesel side, FASS pump on the VO side, 2 Hydraforce valves and a 30 plate heat exchanger.
2004 Jetta Wagon TDI bioD
April 19, 2007 - 8:34am
#27
Thanks Reeko, I know right where ATS is.
Sdeck
-------------------------
sdeck
2003 Jetta TDI, GreaseCar kit, veg-therm std, TDIHeater, >15,000 veggie miles and counting!
"If you make it idiot proof, nature will make a better idiot"
April 19, 2007 - 8:38pm
#28
Quote:
Originally posted by: Omar
do you have any photo's of your wvo set up you can post?
How is that Fass pump working with WVO?
Omar
Omar
The FASS pump for the vo in made for vo, it work great so far, I got 2k miles out of my last racor filter. I probably could've got more miles out of it, but changed it anyway. Since this filter has more power than stock, I think I'll be changing filter less because of it. I'll post pics soon.
-------------------------
2003 Dodge Cummins/Greasel Voyager tank, FASS pump on diesel side, FASS pump on the VO side, 2 Hydraforce valves and a 30 plate heat exchanger.
2004 Jetta Wagon TDI bioD
April 21, 2007 - 10:33am
#29
http://www.benjaminellis.net/benjaminellisdotnet/projects/WVO/TDI.htm
here is an Flat plate Heat Exchanger install some of you tdi guys may want to look at
Omar
www.omarsales.com
April 26, 2007 - 9:02pm
#30
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/6421006031/p/8
Omar
www.omarsales.com
May 1, 2007 - 1:15pm
#31
http://www.3cats.com/vJet/
May 6, 2007 - 5:19pm
#32
May 6, 2007 - 5:27pm
#33
Quote:
Originally posted by: sdeck
Quote:
Originally posted by: reeko
I put a 30 plate HE in before the valves and it kept the VO above 160F when it was 10 below zero this winter in NorColorado. I don't have a vegetherm. Sdeck lives and drives in this area on VO and uses a vegetherm(?).
I wanted to stick with plumbing and not wiring.
-------------------------
2003 Dodge Cummins/Greasel Voyager tank, FASS pump on diesel side, FASS pump on the VO side, 2 Hydraforce valves and a 30 plate heat exchanger.
2004 Jetta Wagon TDI bioD
Reeko is right. I run a vegtherm std in my 03 Jetta. It helps, but was not sufficient without the TDIHeater, heavy insulation, and radiator block in single digit temps. These TDIs just don't generate much excess heat. I've noticed in traffic, the heater loses a significant amount of its output on cold days, sometimes enough that the blowing air is downright cool. That makes me wonder if the coolant actually is cooling off enough to lower the temp of grease in a FPHE. The electric heat advantage is fewer plumbing connections/potential problems and heat regardless of coolant temp. Downside is power draw. I had a filter heater I built to fit inside the GC heater coil, worked pretty well, but the insulationing h-temp tape kept weraing away and shorting the nichrome. Working on the beta version....
Reeko, where did you get the FASS pumps? I'm thinking about a Rocki-mod tied to the vegtherm but keep seeing issues with the Facet pumps failing.
-------------------------
sdeck
2003 Jetta TDI, GreaseCar kit, veg-therm std, TDIHeater, >15,000 veggie miles and counting!
"If you make it idiot proof, nature will make a better idiot"
If you are getting cold air in the cabin the coolant is definantly going to be cold. If the coolant is cold the FPHE is not doing you any good. For a VW a combination of electric and coolant based heat is best for cold climates. A coolant / electric heat on filter (electric to boost temps when needed coolant to maintain heat) and a electric heater before IP is good. a FPHE anywhere in the system is a good idea.
It is pretty simple tho when it comes to coolant heating its not just heating its also cooling or rather an ability to maintain more of a constant temperature. We refer to these things are heaters all the time but they will also work to cool off things they are heat exchangers so if the veg oil is hotter then the coolant somehow then the veg will work to warm up the coolant. So if it is a cold day out and you are stuck in slow moveing traffic and you nitice your water temp guage in the car dropping the temp of your veg oil is also dropping unless you have enough electric heating to ofset the cooling effect of the coolant based heat exhangers in the car.
-------------------------
01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Veg 04-06 now mixing into the HHO
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html
May 6, 2007 - 5:37pm
#34
Quote:
Originally posted by: Omar
http://www.benjaminellis.net/benjaminellisdotnet/projects/WVO/TDI.htm
here is an Flat plate Heat Exchanger install some of you tdi guys may want to look at
Omar
www.omarsales.com
That has got to be one of the best idea's i have seen for a install. Now if only that was a accual cold air intake it would be really great. A bit of work i imagine relocateing the battery but it really looks nice. How many gallons does that hold? That looks like its a lot easier to fill up and i like the doubble inline filters and all the connections are external to the tank so no worry about some stinking o-ring ruining your day.
-------------------------
01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Veg 04-06 now mixing into the HHO
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html
May 12, 2007 - 10:56am
#35
May 15, 2007 - 3:34pm
#36
can you post a few photo's of your install?
Omar
May 15, 2007 - 8:24pm
#37
Quote:
Originally posted by: Omar
can you post a few photo's of your install?
Omar
Yeah, once it looks respectable! I need to find some kind of strapping material to mount it nicely. It is just kind of propped on the inside fender well at the moment. But I have to say... it works GREAT.
-------------------------
```````````````````````````````````
1982 Mercedes Benz 300D 6K Veg Miles
1999 New Beetle TDI, GC Kit, Vegtherm 20K veg miles (SOLD!)
http://www.chuckwyatt.com/
May 16, 2007 - 1:54pm
#38
http://www.billyvandervalk.com/veggie/caddyinstall/
VW caddy install with flat plate HE
May 20, 2007 - 2:52pm
#39
May 25, 2007 - 2:05pm
#40
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/4591017081?r=...
have a good read
Omar
June 1, 2007 - 1:32pm
#41
Here are a few pictures of my My 1996 Suburban conversion in progress. First is underneath the driver's side of the vehicle, the custom tank along the frame rail. It's black so it blends in, I painted it with roll-on bedliner from Walmart. The stuff on the front of the tank is a FPHE to both boost heat before the fuel pump, and transfer some heat to the fuel tank in front where the fuel pickups are.
B.K. Hosken
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/5701080002
June 7, 2007 - 1:43pm
#42
I have a protoype underhood configuration running on my customers 300TD. Has hose on hose, a "frybrid" filter on the tank with heated draw in the rear. Under the hood is a 16 plate FPHE. getting about 15 degrees less than whatever the engine coolan temp is. i.e. 172F oil at 187F coolant.
Note: the frybrid filter is not of my choosing but of the customers...
-------------------------
Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
June 19, 2007 - 11:20am
#43
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/8351029591
July 5, 2007 - 3:00pm
#44
300sd 16 plate Heat Exchanger with coolant wrap heated wvo filter 140 to 180F wvo at the ip in fair weather ...
Omar
www.omarsales.com
July 6, 2007 - 3:57pm
#45
Work in progress, I have since relocated the bleeder; put vacuum guage in its place..
-------------------------
Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
July 8, 2007 - 9:53pm
#46
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dRtZ2tLwII
wvo Heat Exchanger veggie oil
July 20, 2007 - 5:32pm
#47
1980 vw rabbit with coolant wraped heated wvo filter with 16 plate HE with foam insulation ...
Omar
July 20, 2007 - 8:33pm
#48
July 27, 2007 - 8:08pm
#49
July 27, 2007 - 11:58pm
#50
I hate to add to this old post but since it is fresh at the top I'm going to any way.
I have a 99 suburban. I havn't yet converted it. I was thinking of building my own system. I never thought of a heat exchanger before. I noticed in omar's post that he has a suburban w/ a conversion kit. Does it have a heat exchanger? What type?
With a heat exchanger do I need a tank heater?
I saw a show on one of the tech channels on cable and they took a computer (the motherboard, card, and power supply) and poored svo over it and used it for cooling. It does not conduct electricity like h2o. Any way I was thinking of putting in a heating element from an electric stove and temperature dial in the tank and having a plug to plug it in while parked at home.
The theory is to start on dino and then imediately switch over. The car wont need to be at operating temperature when you switch over since the wvo will be at 170. I was thinking of having duel power for 110 plug and to run off the batteries. With a heat exchanger I wouldn't need to worry about converting it to heat on the batteries.
What is right or wrong w/ my thinking?
Thanks,
-------------------------
Rodd
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Hi doc, check out www.omarsales.com to purchase and the infopop forum for mounting and success. I think everything you want to know is there.
TRIP
-------------------------
2001 VW Golf TDI
GreasedGolf
Converted 9/1/05 @ 46,200 miles with standard Greasecar kit
Added vegtherm 11/1/05
Currently (2/25/06) 15k greasy miles
125 mile per day commuter