Free fuel - great idea, but it won't last
June 23, 2004 - 7:28pm
Don't get me wrong...I love the idea of turning what was once thought of as environmental waste into something that is good for the environment. I also love the idea of getting used veggy oil for free, BUT how long can this really last? In the end, we are talking about a precious commodity here- gas! It can only be a matter of time before demand for used veggy oil outstrips supply and therefore pricing becomes similar to normal gas. I mean you got farmers, truckers, and anyone else that uses diesel engines who could benefit from used veggy oil. Some guy here is even using the stuff to heat his home. So, what's your prediction regarding when this free fuel will no longer be free? 2 years? 5? Let's hear your prediction.
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GreasyButGood
June 23, 2004 - 9:08pm
#2
Nah, the situation won't last... at least not as it currently exists. But hey, what does?
I foresee one of the following possibly happening:
1) The government deciding to tax (or even prohibit) the use of WVO. Sick and wrong, but possible.
2) Increasing demand for WVO causing sources to charge for it.
But for now, it is a terrific resource, and one that I am excited to utilize! Don't rain on my parade, bro! =)
(Also, the general public just doesn't like to change habits very much -- and they don't like extra work or inconvenience. As long as people can easily GET gas, and don't have to filter WVO, this fuel source will be available to us for a while, at least. My rather undereducated hope is 5-10 years.)
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Doc
When I haven't any Blue...
I use Red.
--Pablo Picasso
June 23, 2004 - 9:28pm
#3
What I predict will happen is that if it begins to catch on it will be outlawed. It's easier to do that than to tax it.
It's too much of a pain in the ass to catch on big time.
It's as if we've just discovered that if you have a dairy cow and some pasture, you no longer have to buy milk from the store.
It might catch on, but not many folks want to be milking the cow at 7 am every %*^&-ing day.
In fact, I'll be glad if it doesn't catch on.
If it does it'll be taxed or outlawed, and my free supplies will dry up.
And, it's not really environmentally friendlier than any other fuel. I mean, lets face it, we're driving diesels, which, whatever fuel their burning, make atomised particulate waste that gets in your lungs and doesn't want to come out.
I do it for purely selfish reasons (I am cheap, love to scrounge, and love anything DIY). Anyone who does it to save the world should quit fooling themselves and ride a bike.
June 23, 2004 - 10:49pm
#4
The main difference between the two is simply this.... Vegetable oil is RENEWABLE, petroleum is not. You want more veggie?, GROW MORE! in your own backyard and press the soybeans yourself!
June 24, 2004 - 8:25am
#5
Last or not... there is no ignoring the 2 billion gallons of waste oil that is generated every year...
June 24, 2004 - 9:42am
#6
When people say grease won't last because there's not enough to power everyone, they don't consider that it doesn't NEED to power everyone. Homes are heated with natural gas, water, diesel, etc. There's not enough natural gas to supply all homes, but that doesn't matter.
People say grease won't last, like our supply will dry up like fossil fuels will. Because it is renewable, grease is a viable long term solution for a portion of the world's vehicles. We're just so used to having a homogenous fuel source for our vehicles (especially in the US), that we don't consider the possibilities of multiple sources of fuel
June 24, 2004 - 1:09pm
#7
in europe it is known that vehicles can be veggie powered. in addition to this fact diesel vehicles are in abundance on that side of the ocean. petro diesel there is very expensive to boot. still it hasn't caused a large scale change to veggievans! it would be sooo much easier to do it there but they do not. not everyone is ready or willing to accept the lifestyle changes and responsibilities that are incurred with using veggie. some folks don't like to get messy. thats fine. so for the near future you can most likely be assure that the greater portion of the population withh cling to what they know and are comfortable with. that is what i think anyway.
June 24, 2004 - 3:32pm
#8
well I hate to rain on everyones parade but the value of used oil is definately going up. I have a restaurant and of course lots of used oil . for years we had to pay to have it hauled away but in the last year or two the rendering company has started to pay us . it's not much 5 cents to as much as 15 a pound. the company only pays you for half the total weight the other half paying for the service. there is a futures market at the commodity exchange called the yellow grease market. all those pet food makers and soap makers are bidding on the same oil we are going to burn in our cars. I like the idea of keeping the resourse close to home . grow the beans press the oil fry the food burn the oil to plant more beans. the lazyness factor will keep most people from trying to gather their own fuel. smaller restaurants who don't have enough waste grease are still paying to have it hauled away. they are your best bets for getting oil. brain freeze time to go.
June 24, 2004 - 4:33pm
#9
I too think that we will be driving greasecars for quite a while. Once this media flash passes over, people will pretty much forget about us.
I've been heating my houses with wood for quite a few years. By the same reasoning, you would think that firewood would be hard to come by (like grease, with a little work you have a nearly free source of energy). But it hasn't. There is probably more of it available now than there was five or ten years ago.
As for the environmental questions, it's nice to burn anything that doesn't require drilling, refining or a big war.
June 25, 2004 - 8:26am
#10
I think it'll continue for as long as restaurants etc have to pay to have the stuff taken away and disposed of properly (at least, they do here in Blighty) My suppliers are only too keen to get shot of the darn stuff & save a bit of the filthy lucre. Supply might get a little tighter as more people come on board & compete for a finite supply but I can't see us ever paying for used oil without some suden & currently unforseen changes in the market or economy. Modding vehicle to run on VO of any sort will always likely remain a niche passtime for oily boffins like ourselves & will not likely generate widespread appeal.
cheers,
DD.
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It's a diesel thing - You wouldn't understand
June 26, 2004 - 4:20am
#11
I seem to have the problem here in Colorado(southern part) of getting restaraunts to let me have or purchase the oil even though they are paying to have it hauled away. It seems that most of the restaraunts here are owned by the same people that also own the gas stations. This area has very strange ways of doing things anyway but it is hindering my installation of the parts to run veggie, why convert if i cant get a supply of oil? Oh well I'm gonna keep on trying, have about 10 more locals to hit up then I will try around where I work in Colo. Springs. I WILL TURN VEGGIE!
...jACK
June 26, 2004 - 1:58pm
#12
Hi I am Art and I am new to this forum.
With all the wing and pizza joints in Buffalo not to mention tons of chinese food and taco shop, grease is just about unlimited. I don't know of any greasers in Buffalo so I belive it will last for me for years. I am friends with several oweners of the Wing and Chinese places and they all said I can have all the grease I want. It's kept in black grease dumpsters in the back of the bussiness. I will be getting the grease kit in Aug 2004 for my 99 golf. Is the kit easy to install on a golf? I have a mechanical back ground as I was one before becoming a machinest. Does the kit come with instructions for specific cars or a general one. I have checked out several grease kits places and this seems to be the best. Thanks for reading all this :-)
Art
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Grease no wings please!
Art H
June 26, 2004 - 6:11pm
#13
shoot! it only took me 3 to 4 tries in my small town in michigan to find a huge tank(200 gallons?)and the restaurant couldnt care less if i took it!I Am currently building an aluminum 22 gallon tank to fit in the bed of my 1981 rabbit truck. have found 1 place down the road that's getting paid for there oil too, but all others just have it taken away for free.Rick
June 26, 2004 - 7:28pm
#14
.
June 27, 2004 - 10:56am
#15
A couple of things were brought up that are right on the money, having literally been around the world twice, north of the Artic Circle and south of the Equator I have come to learn 1. Americans (except those running grease) are by nature lazy meaning that they will trade $ for convience sake, no pumps pumping grease so no big switch because running grease takes time to gather and filter.
2. After consumption of many brewed products, it all boils down to INDIVIDUAL tolerance of gas prices, what does it take to make a lifestyle change?, incur the extra time and resources to do the grease thing?$ 2.00 per gallon, $ 3.00?, or $4.00. Of course when you get more publicity (national ) more people are exposed and will switch,,then it will slow down until the next big price hike etc... like Silver Bunny, I like to keep the money I earn in my pocket, I have two wind turbines, some solar panels and am installing two solar water heaters to save money, the by product being that it also helps the enviornment. i for one will still collect it for free and will pay for it already filtered as long as I'm saving $.
July 6, 2004 - 8:22pm
#16
As pointed out above there is a market for that used oil, the grease collectors have been getting by with making money on both ends, but as the demand for oil increases then the collectors may start paying to collect and thus encourage the restaraunts to protect their used oil.
If soap makes use the oil to get the glicerin then what do they do with all the oil?
I just found out that a friend is into making glicerin based soap and has a problem getting rid of all the oil after getting the glicerin from the WVO! I think I can help out here....
July 7, 2004 - 9:17am
#17
never thought about that. that soap byproduct, the oil, isn't that just unwashed biodiesel already? no kit needed to use it, right? if i'm right go for it!!!
July 13, 2004 - 7:15pm
#18
I suspect you are being a little pessimistic. Quit overanalyzing it and just jump in. If you drive more than just to church and back once a month, it will pay for itself quick. You can build a biodiesel reactor for a couple hundred dollars. A few more dollars for a filter setup, lab equipment etc and you might have $500 (US) invested.
At $1.5/gallon where I am, that means that when you have used 500 gallons, you have your money back. Think it will be 2-5 years before you use that much oil?
In the meantime, you have the satisfaction of knowing what you have accomplished, immediately upon making your first batch! You also just as quick are drammatically cutting pollutants to the atmosphere!
Feel better now? I am a business owner who chose to just go for it! I could have found a zillion reasons not to, listened to family and friends conservative advice etc, but I didn't and now I am totally glad I did!
Just go for it!
July 13, 2004 - 7:34pm
#19
I think one must look at the principle of the whole thing. Most folks here just like the idea of not paying for fuel. I am doing it to make a point. We really dont need to depend on foreign oil to run our country. I make it a point to explain this principle to all the youngsters in my family, and explain the reasons I am running my car on veggie oil. When they become old enough to buy their first car, and they choose a diesel veggie or hybrid for that matter... my work will be done.
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1983 240D Benz - My Veggimatic -
July 14, 2004 - 12:34pm
#20
Who knows if- or when- the supplies of free veggie oil will last. But when they are gone, when the demand outweighs the supply, THAT is when vegetable-oil cars will slip into the next millenium!
OK so what is all this gibberish about? ALGAL OIL. Yes, my friends, people will grow algae in huge shallow ponds and extract the oil for use in our veggiecars!!! I'll be happy to pay for the convenience of pulling up to a pump and pumping algal oil into my Golf. It's renewable, grown right here in USA or wherever you live, uses saltwater so there's no need to use irrigation water, and it will be comparatively priced to petrofuel.
I can't wait till this happens, because that means 1. There are lots of veggieburners out there!! 2. We will power our cars with a renewable resource, supporting our economy instead of Middle-eastern wars. Rudolph Diesel would be proud.
I've actually thought about starting a business collecting the ugly algae from nearby Lakes and making oil out of it. Would you buy it for $1.50 a gallon?
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If a horse can eat green *&!# and run like a mother-&*#!er then so can {my car}!
-Miles Davis
July 24, 2004 - 10:40pm
#21
........and our Trucking Club 'will consume' 6,000 gallons daily (sixty 18 wheelers and GROWING) when we 'convert!'
1TruckingClub.com
Innovation is born of COMPETITION.
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VeggieOilSaysShoveItOPEC.com
VeggieOilFuelsMyTruck.com
ShoveItOPECbig3.com
July 30, 2004 - 5:50am
#22
Someone PLEASE tell me WHY the gov. would outlaw greasecars. 50% less and 90% less emission and carcinogens respectivley, and it's not harming anyone, and it's not a controlled substance.
To predict they will outlaw this smacks of black helicopters and tinfoil hats.
July 30, 2004 - 11:43am
#23
They would outlaw it if the can't tax it like the gasoline and diesel market. In a California county it is illeagle to collect WVO. It would be very hard to inforce it though. It is food stuff you can buy at the store after all but that doesn't mean they wouldn't try. As for the enviroment the government track record isn't very good. (drilling protected lands in Alaska, loggig etc). I am not a conspirecy supporter but I still wouldn't expect the government to sit back and loose out on taxes. I will keep a low profile publicy and not worry about it as I have several sources of WVO from personal friends so I am pretty sure I will always get some WVO. This could be a much bigger problem for bussiness owners mostly fleet operators who have to show all their fuel expenses.
Art
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It's not Easy being Greasy!
September 4, 2004 - 2:34pm
#24
Don't you think that oil companies will start producing Veggie Diesel and selling it at their stations?
I don't see why there is no interest in doing that now. They still get to 'refine' it and sell it, they just don't have to drill for it.
September 4, 2004 - 5:53pm
#25
Some of them do. It's called Biodiesel. Goto www.biodiesel.org for more info.
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I love my kind veggie '77 240D.
September 5, 2004 - 6:59am
#26
Here in michigan you can buy a diesel/soy bean oil biodiesel that you have a choice in 2 percent soy or 20 percent soy, and the rest is petrol diesel. I bought 5 gallons of the 20% at 2.22 a gallon?the 2% goes for just over 2.00 a gallon?I run this in my main tank and wvo in my bigger tank.
September 13, 2004 - 8:02pm
#27
I think you all would agree that the use of SVO as a fuel is growing, and quickly. Just look at all the new greasecar profiles that weren't on this site a month ago! I don't know if anyone has run into this, but I'm already seeing the demand rise in my area. Not only do I and some other greasers in Western NC look for good quality oil (which restaurants will give up), but so does Griffin Industries, Carolina ByProducts, and now a biodiesel co-op has joined the mix. I have found it frustrating to find a restaurant with good quality grease that isn't being paid by the first two companies for it! The last place I checked is being paid $400/year for 70 gallons/week. That averages to approx $.12/gal.
Of course, the restaurants with the nasties floating in the oil, open containers exposed to rain and sun, beer bottles inside bins, etc. are happy to give it away.
So if Griffin or CBP will sell the SVO, filtered, settled, etc. It may be worth it to "purchase" from them (for use in livestock feed of course!!!) But how do you know there's not a bunch of algae, bacteria, or water in suspension in the oil? I hate to be picky, but...
Not being able to solve this dilemma, I'll keep on trying to find reliable sources of quality WVO. I hope you guys have better luck!
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If a horse can eat green *&!# and run like a mother-&*#!er then so can {my car}!
-Miles Davis
September 18, 2004 - 5:49pm
#28
Most people love the idea of WVO, applaud it, but are addicted to the convenience of a gas station. Adding any extra complication to their lives, especially if they have to invest money up front to store and filter the oil, buy a vehicle, etc. is not going to happen. The key to doing WVO right is to set up your filtering and storage infrastructure so it takes less than 1 hour per month to maintain it. Unfortunately, for me, that took probably a couple weeks of work and $1000 to do. Worth it, but if you're not a back yard mechanic, it's a lot of trouble. I think anyone with the drive will be able to find WVO for quite a while.
September 18, 2004 - 6:07pm
#29
i don't remember who said it but the majority of americans won't get dirty to save money on motor fuel. just wait until ih comes out with their bigger hummer-9 ft tall-and see what people will pay for fuel.
also as americans we are addicted to fried food so there is always grease to be had.
hmmmm, my wife works for an environmental company. maybe i can get some of that. she says they have 250 gal totes she will ask for so i can accumulate a little golden nest egg.
September 19, 2004 - 9:03am
#30
Well - it's 3 months on and my free fuel shows no sign of abating.
DD.
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It's a diesel thing - You wouldn't understand
September 20, 2004 - 1:27pm
#31
I hope it lasts, just bought a '96 F250 Diesel!
I kinda hope the media blitz does subside and it grows through word of mouth. I'm most concerned that at some point the government will get concerned about tax loss or the companies making a living picking up WVO will start trying to protect thier sourse. I would think the bigger the veggie comunity grows before those threatened by us try to clamp down, the better we'll be able to make our case.
swn
September 24, 2004 - 9:10pm
#32
I AM SO GLAD SOMEONE HAS BROUGHT THIS TOPIC UP! It is such a pet peeve of mine... My theory on this whole wonderful, beautiful concept of running our cars on free fuel is that IT NEEDS TO STAY UNDERGROUND!! I know, there are those environmentalists that scream and shout, We must save the planet! Use veggie oil! But i'm not one of these people. I'm a car-guy. I love cars. I collect them. I love to drive them. I can't afford the gasoline to put in all of them though! It is so unfortunate that gas prices are so high right now - because this underground veggie thing is no longer underground. It has reached the mainstream- It's in all the newspapers. GreaseCar founders are doing magazine interviews... It's on the local news...
Some are going to say i'm being selfish. But here's the problem. (Though it's been stated before...) If we don't keep this on the down-low, the Gov-Ment is going to do to vegetable oil, what it did to BioDiesel. That is; make it so that it is not economically feasible to use it. They'll make it so we have to buy the veg oil, then pay a tax on it. Don't believe me; what's the cost of a gallon of BioDiesel at the pumps then? What's the cost of a gallon of BioDiesel if we make it our own-damn-selves and not tell anyone?
So- this is why it irks me to see cars driving around with stickers and decals plastered all over them shouting, Hey look at me! The government doesn't know I drive for free! You can too - Ask me how!
Sure you can too. I'm not against spreading the word. It just needs to be spread in smaller circles. Like at these environmental festivals where we go to share ideas and hold hands and hug trees and light incense and tie dye tee shirts and.....
September 24, 2004 - 10:56pm
#33
....and light the bong:)
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1980 mercedes 300tdt
September 25, 2004 - 4:29am
#34
I think keeping a low profile is the best route. I share my veggie experiences with my friends but I am not going to tell the world. I'm really in it to save the mighy green (not trees but $money$) and helping the enviroment in the process is a plus. So the longer it lasts the better. I am pretty lucky because diesel cars in Buffalo are pretty rare (plenty of big rigs though) do to a bad reputation of trouble starting in the winter (70's diesels). A big problem if you live in Buffalo. My father thought I was insane to buy a diesel. He even questioned my mother if she ever dropped me when I was a baby. I had to hear the story AGAIN of my cousins brand new 1978 diesel that had to get towed 15 times in the winter that year because it wouldn't start. He sold it for a huge loss ($2000+) in the spring. So I have currently have no competition for the oil and I would like to keep it that way.
Art
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It's not Easy being Greasy!
99 Golf TDI going grease soon!
October 7, 2004 - 3:33am
#35
Over here in NZ they tax diesels on their tare weight and their milage so there is no issue with excise tax for the alternatives
October 7, 2004 - 5:26pm
#36
Call me an environmentalist, tree-hugger, whatever you like. The bottom line is, I would like to live in a relatively decent place when I'm 75, Lord willing I live to be that old.
I'd sure like there to be some Oxygen to breathe.
I'd sure like to be able to drive to the store for groceries.
I'd sure like to visit my family and friends from time to time.
I'd sure like to enjoy the weather outside during the summer, and see the beauty of our NC mountains covered in snow every so often.
But I'm not so sure that life will be easy-going 50 years from now, if our world remains dependent on stashes of fossil fuels, sending carbon into the air by the trillions of tons and not growing things to take carbon out of the air.
I could call everyone for not letting the world know about SVO fuel selfish, but in the end I am the one who is selfish. I'm selfish because I want the world to remain a wonderful place to live and breathe, so that I can enjoy it when I'm old. I want our country to remain free, but be a crucial leader in the weaning of non-renewable resources. I don't want to see the looming gas-crisis that will eventually happen.
For these selfish reasons I believe it is my duty to let people know about SVO fuel. Sorry for bursting anyone's secrecy bubbles. When SVO fuel becomes readily available at the pump, will I be crying? Absolutely not. Happily I will pay a market-determined price for fuel. OK, so maybe my pocket won't be as full. But it might be! Think of the economic benefits of not being dependent on FOREIGN fuel. Think of the INDUSTRY that would remain in our wonderful country! Think of the ECONOMIC benefits that would affect us all in a positive way. Then think of the ENVIRONMENTAL problems we would save.
Sorry guys, I can't keep it a secret. I'm too selfish.
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If a horse can eat green *&!# and run like a mother-&*#!er then so can {my car}!
-Miles Davis
October 7, 2004 - 6:06pm
#37
i agree with you golftdi.
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1980 mercedes 300tdt
October 7, 2004 - 8:29pm
#38
the environment is fine. the mountains aren't going anywhere. you'll be 75 before you know it. you'll think differently when you're older too.
furthermore, let's hypothetically imagine the world 50 years from now. (smoke 'em if ya got 'em)
Imagine in this future that you dream of, when everyone's driving diesel cars running on vegetable oil (and i mean damn-near everyone)...
There will be some country producing vegetable oil cheaper than our country. We'll buy some of it from them to suppliment our own production. That country would be down, like 4th or 5th on our list of suppliers. But when a dictator arises and begins to oppress that country, and his neighboring countries as well, the world looks to it's strongest for help. And then what do we have? Why, it's another situation for all the lilly-livered liberals to shout "No war! No blood for Oil!" Only this time it's vegetable oil. The "war" wouldn't be over oil, but you couldn't stop people from believing it wasn't.
Petro or veggie, it's a fuel. It's a commodity. It will be taxed; it will be traded; it'll be bought and sold. AND people will fight over it.
My real point is that everything is cyclical. It all rolls around again. It doesn't matter what country you live in. It doesn't matter who's president. It doesn't matter what political party you say you belong to. The economy will go up, and it will go down. We'll find ourselves in times of war, and sometimes peace.
Where's Bill Murray when you need him? Remember that movie Meatballs? "It just doesn't matter...It just doesn't matter! It just doesn't matter!!!" Just deal with the here-and-now. Some of these cycles can be a lifetime.
October 7, 2004 - 10:01pm
#39
I agree with LMB. He's not saying you can't spread the word. We just don't want to see it become the next mainstream fuel.
And to the others, Don't miss the whole point of this thread. If you go back to the beginning, you'll see it's about FREE FUEL. GreasyButGood thinks it's great, but what might cause it to no longer be free. What's going to happen to our free fuel? Hmmm... Who might screw things up for us? Well, Golftdi for one, can tell you what he plans to do.
October 8, 2004 - 11:31am
#40
I love you LMB (not seriously, but still... exactly).
Anyway... as for the whole "convenience" thing... I don't see why that would be something to inhibit anyone. After all, you have two tanks. So... when you're low you can fill off of what you filter at home, but when you're on the road just slosh that diesel in there and away you go. Convenience nothing, it is every bit as convenient... it just opens up options.
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- Windaria
October 8, 2004 - 2:57pm
#41
For a little more info. on what is happening to the oil we all want to put in our cars , go to the grease board topic (and what's the deal with grease where you live). This is how the loop is being closed and why we will have a harder time getting grease in the future. Yes, it will take a long time but the value of waste oil is sure to increase until even the small cafe's will get paid for it. We may still be able run our cars on WVO but we will have to out bid the grease hauler.
October 31, 2004 - 2:24pm
#42
It is like greasebunny said, "diesel cars in Buffalo are rare".
Yes, very rare! I have the only other one in the area. And what normal person wants to mess with used cooking oil?
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Hauled enough dino petroleum products!!!
October 31, 2004 - 4:14pm
#43
HEY PEEPS,
DRIVING A CAR ON USED VEGGIE OIL MAKES A STATEMENT THAT WE DON"T NEED TO GO TO FOREIGN
COUNTRIES AND INVADE THEM TO GET THE OIL.
DA DA DA Da
FUCK UR WALLETS
THE MONEY U SAVE SHOULD BE A SECONDARY BENIFIT
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WHAZ UP hey all out there -nice to see some folks that aren't afraid to go against the grain and think for themselves and not just do as the masses!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 1, 2004 - 12:06pm
#44
Quote:
Originally posted by: batteryboy
HEY PEEPS,
DRIVING A CAR ON USED VEGGIE OIL MAKES A STATEMENT THAT WE DON"T NEED TO GO TO FOREIGN
COUNTRIES AND INVADE THEM TO GET THE OIL.
DA DA DA Da
FUCK UR WALLETS
THE MONEY U SAVE SHOULD BE A SECONDARY BENIFIT
-------------------------
WHAZ UP hey all out there -nice to see some folks that aren't afraid to go against the grain and think for themselves and not just do as the masses!!!!!!!!!!!!
First, what foregin country did we invade to get their oil?
Second, we dont HAVE to be dependant on foreign oil, we have enough of our own that is still untapped.....its just easier and cheaper at this point to buy it from the middle east.
Third, there are alot of other fuels that are much more practical than veggie oil for mass distribution. We use petrolium products because they are the easiest and cheapest. WVO may go up in price due to increasing demands, but I dont see it at the pump. At least not before, mass production of hybrids, electric cars, maybe alcohol-burners, and a few others before WVO.
The fact that we are using a renewable resource for fuel is great, but the fact that its free is better......I think the collecting and filtering is to much of a P.I.T.A. for the average person to want to bother with it......I think we've got some time.
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85 300D - Heated 2 tank system "family mobile"
69 Pontiac GTO - "the show"
96 WS6 Formula - 11.9 @122mph "the go"
November 1, 2004 - 12:13pm
#45
are you kidding me? Iraq hello, whats the first thing we did when we got there, We "secured" the oil filds and docks.
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1980 mercedes 300tdt
November 1, 2004 - 8:46pm
#46
I HEAR U BRO
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WHAZ UP hey all out there -nice to see some folks that aren't afraid to go against the grain and think for themselves and not just do as the masses!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 2, 2004 - 5:08am
#47
Quote:
Originally posted by: luckys420
are you kidding me? Iraq hello, whats the first thing we did when we got there, We "secured" the oil filds and docks.
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1980 mercedes 300tdt
This was a strategic move, not the REASON we went over there. When Saddam realized what was happening, what is the first thing he would try and take out before we took him out? Should we just let him burn the oil fields? You think the price of fuel is high now?....
Its ridiculous to assume that because we secured the oil fields, that was the REASON we went over.
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85 300D - Heated 2 tank system "family mobile"
69 Pontiac GTO - "the show"
96 WS6 Formula - 11.9 @122mph "the go"
November 2, 2004 - 2:16pm
#48
WACK IT
IF we aren't there for the oil then why aren't we in Africa where are numerous ruthless dictators killing and maiming their own people as bad or worse as Saddam yet they are not sitting on a mountain of old fucking dinosaur juice SO WAKE UP DUDE AND SMELL THE FUCKING COFFEE.
DA DA DA DA DA
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WHAZ UP hey all out there -nice to see some folks that aren't afraid to go against the grain and think for themselves and not just do as the masses!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 2, 2004 - 2:30pm
#49
Very true batteryboy, but some people can't or will not admit that.
It's hard to understand why people would kill someone over oil, or take over there land and in the end it makes us all responsable. BECAUSE WE ALL USE OIL.
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I'm going to get this grease project going or die trying.
November 2, 2004 - 3:27pm
#50
Anyone who drives a car shouldn't get too used to the idea. It's a passing fad that is not in any way ecological or sustainable. There are more resources required to drive vehicles that just petro chemicals for fuel. Consider as well what car usage does to our communities. I.E. sprawl.
Americans love cars!! Now so do the Chinese! Anyone noticed the price of scrap metal recently. Where is it all going? China! They want what we have people, and so does every other developing country. There are only so many resouces, and it's not just a matter of using them up, it's a matter of demand increasing and supply decreasing and price going up baby; to a point where only the wealthy can afford anything. Look at the cost of living in this country.
So, anyone whining about more people learning about driving on grease should consider the true reality of the situation, and stop thinking only about themselves. And anyone who thinks that driving cars on grease is the answer to our ecological and social issues should get their heads out of the sand and wake up and smell the concrete. It's a step in the right direction, and it is intermediate technology. Cars are not the answer however.... Public Transport and bicycles are the future if we wish for our kids and grand kids to have one that is as plentiful as the current societal reality.
We need to break out of the mechanistic paradigm we are stuck in and consider the fact that natural systems are not black and white. Driving Cars on grease does not equal happiness for all, ther is more to cars than just the fuel!!
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If you think I'm wrong in my prediction that demand for used veggy oil will outstrip supply, please tell me why! Believe me, I would love to believe that I am incorrect and that used veggy oil could really be a viable long-term source of free fuel!
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GreasyButGood