Your particular vehicle doesn't get the radiator fluid hot enough to work with the standard gc setup. You did what you had to do. Hopefully your regular diesel loop goes back thru the filter tho, since you need it to catch particles (such as metal bits from the ip) that could otherwise clog your injectors.

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Freedom begins between the ears.
-Edward Abbey

Ok maybe i am missing something here but wouldnt i have much bigger problems if metal bits are being worn out of my ip or the engine? Metal bits indicares something being worn awey that can only happen for so long before there is a very seriouse problem.

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01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Running on Veg since summer 04 still learning new tricks.
11mm IP + lift pump = POWER
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html

Glad to see I'm not the only return loop believer. If you want, you could even do a controlled flow return (add a valve, about half open), instead of eliminating it altogether.

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Freedom begins between the ears.
-Edward Abbey

It's simple, and I suggested this to greasecar back in September. Add a 3rd solenoid.

NO = Normally Open
NC = Normally Closed
COM = Common

Supply solenoid (A)
NO: Diesel Supply
NC: Vegoil Supply
COM: to the IP

Return Soilenoid (B)
COM: from the IP
NO: Diesel Return
NC: Vegoil/Purge Return

Purge Solenoid (C)
COM: Vegoil/ Return
NO: Running Loop (tee on inlet side of filter)
NC: Filter Purge (tee on outlet side of filter)

When running in diesel mode (all valves have no power), the return is directed by valve B to the tank.

When running in vegoil mode (valves A & B have power) the return is directed to the loop tee'd before the filter.

When purging (Valves B and C have power) the return is directed to the purge tee after the filter (forcing a backflush to the vegoil tank).

To connect electrically, just wire valve C to the pourge side of your 3-way switch (Valve B is already wired to the purge side as well as the vegoil side).

BTW, at the time I suggested this to them, Greasecar added that they have moved away from the idea of purging (backflushing) the filter as it causes stresses on the filter element that it was not designed for. They saw more than one filter element fail due to this.

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2001 VW Golf TDI
GreasedGolf
Converted 9/1/05 @ 46,200 miles with standard Greasecar kit
Added vegtherm 11/1/05
Currently (2/25/06) 15k greasy miles
125 mile per day commuter

I did my powerstroke like that but without a 3rd solenoid. Just use a check valve to prevent v/o from bypassing the filter when running v/o and tie the return in before and after the filter. You could also prevent the filter from backflushing by either using one with an integrated check valve or adding one just before the input side.

no, not at all. My goal was to prevent v/o from constantly cycling through the filter during operation on v/o to extend filter life, and it did just that. The problem with looping after the filter was it would backwash the filter and all the associated "wax and crap" back to the tank during purge without some mods. The return was tied in between the filter and the pump and the filter and the tank both, with a check valve installed to prevent v/o from going around the filter while in v/o mode and another one to prevent v/o from backwashing the filter to the tank during the purge. (actually on the Davco I use it has a built in check valve). The only v/o to travel through the filter is what is actually used. The problem mentioned above with v/o possibly building up on the injector and breaking free (which is a good argument against it) is moot in the PSD as the fuel rail is dead headed anyway and if it were to happen it would happen regardless of how the return is plumbed.

i didnt read all this but. my first truck was set up the greasel way. and when i went down there the first thing Charlie said was to add a small filter to the looped return line or after 30,000 miles you will have problems. and he was correct. i added a small filter and about 20,000 miles it was clogged. now all i do is return lines to the tanks.

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I use to be ForrestGump..My Forum, My Web,My BLOG,

thanks for the update Chase.

Hi Guys,

I have been having to change my veggie filter way too often also. It seems like every 500 miles or so. This last time I changed it, and it seemed to be clogged up, I would just switch back to diesel for a few minutes and then switch back over to veggie and it would work for a few miles or until I hit a hill. I would then have to switch back to diesel until I got to the top of the hill or a few miles and then back to veggie. What is weird is that the veggie filter seems to work fine when it is working for those few minutes. I have to do this constantly.

What do you think the problem is?

At first I thought it was my grease, not filtered enough (only one filtering), but then I thought it might be small pieces of solid grease that haven't melted yet. I also thought maybe it could be trapped air in my system?

If it's air, how can I go about getting the air out? What can I do so solve my problem????

Alicia

Could air in the lines also be a reason for the loss of power on veggie and then loop back around after I switch back to veggie? How can I purge air from my veggie line if there is? And, what is a check valve?

Alicia

Quote:
Originally posted by: scuba1968girl
Could air in the lines also be a reason for the loss of power on veggie and then loop back around after I switch back to veggie? How can I purge air from my veggie line if there is? And, what is a check valve?

Alicia
scuba1968girl, a check valve is usually a spring loaded valve, sometimes just a swing, that only allows fluid or air to travel in one direction.

Quote:
Originally posted by: Chase
So I had my GC system installed last September. At that point, GC was telling installers to have return looped in before the veggie filter, not after. They went to this because they thought that running the return through the filter again would heat it up again.

Purging with this system did not back-flush the veggie filter.

Well, my filter life was always bad (1300 miles max). Most of you know I refine my WVO big time, so the filters were not clogging with particulate. Wax was building up such that even the normal heating of the filter did not melt it off, seems the constant loop of filtering the same fuel was doing it.

So last filter change I went and re-plumbed to the old style: return is after veggie filter. Purging results in filter back-flush. Fuel coming through filter is basically a trickle. What do you know, I'm at 1800 miles on this filter and no sign of clogging.

My Golf has a lift pump for the veggie, so between that and the IP, the fuel races around that loop big time. But, a friend of mine does not have the lift pump on his Beetle and was still getting short filter life. I guess the VW IP on the PD engines is pretty high volume by itself. He's switching his plumbing too.

As for purging, I know some of you have thought that it takes a load of diesel to purge through the filter and back to the tank. True enough. But if you have a HIH system, why bother purging all the way back? I've been purging for 30 seconds MAX with the new plumbing. All I really want to do is remove any WVO from the engine before switching to diesel so no WVO gets into the diesel tank. And, I want some back flow and a little diesel to get into the veggie filter so the wax doesn't build up.

One other cool thing about this setup is when changing filters, no need to pre-fill and possibly spill. Just put it in dry, then purge...look in veggie tank and wait until bubbles stop coming back to tank, then your know no more air in the system. I'll still probably fill every other filter with Diesel Purge or Power Service, unless my filters end up lasting a REALLY long time.

As for heat loss due to return not going through heated filter again, here are my thoughts: return fuel comes out of engine even hotter than when it went in. Also, the fuel that is being drawn from the filter is being done so at a trickle, so it is getting really hot before entering the loop. I think I will finally hook up some temp sensors to get real data. If I am losing heat, I'll go for a glow plug heater right before IP.

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2005 VW Golf PD-TDI
Hi Chase,

I'm finally getting around to fixing my short filter life. I've got my GreaseCar installation booklet in front of me (purchased kit last fall) and the veggie return line is coming from solenoid B to before the veggie filter. Ok, now are you talking about moving the veggie return line to after the veggie filter and before the solenoid A?? I just want to make sure that I have it right before I make the modification. If I do this modification, should I put an in-line prefilter after my return line before the solenoid A???

I'm on a new veggie filter @ 270 miles and it's clogging already. Is it possible that I have bacteria in my filter that could be causing it to clog?

Alicia

Anyone else answer my question about changing the return line to after the veggie filter and before the solenoid A or another place?

Alicia

My Frybrid system by design returns to tank, not to loop. The most I have gotten is about 6,000 miles from one filter, I've gotten over 5,000 on two. But I have also burned thru some in 500 miles, and could not figure out why.

What I've done just to alleviate stress on the IP is loop the return to come in AFTER the filter (and before the final HE). Purging backflushes the filter in this setup. I am not aware of much benefit to this purge, but the filter I have reportedly tolerates it, and so it doesn't hurt anything.

I tend to trust what Brian said and what he reports Charlie said. I also want a way to quickly and esily handle an air bubble in the loop if I got one (although I've driven 3,000 miles this way and never gotten one). So what I did is order a 3rd solenoid valve and put that in the return on the VO side coming off the return valve. For the diesel side, the only choice is back to diesel tank. For the VO side, it goes thru this 3rd valve, and then either returns to loop or returns to tank. What I have been doing is switching it to return to tank for a mile or two about every 3-400 miles, or about once each tank fillup. This way, any perticles that might get thru the filter and get trapped ciculating in the loop (or any metal particles that erode off the injectors or anywhere else) have a few minutes to flush to the tank, where if they get picked up in the fuel pickup will get stopped by the filter anyway.

This way I have the benefit of much less vacuum suction in normal operation, right up until end of filter life.

I plan to install a helper pump in the near future, and see if by the time the filter begins to clog, if I flip on the pump, if it gets me a little longer, as I expect to be the case.

Will report on that if I do it . . .

Jeff

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98 Jetta TDI, Frybrid kit, Installation thread here. 27,000 miles on VO as of 9/1/06
91 F-250, 7.3, 5-Spd. Blending in the rear tank while working on a homebrewed conversion. 8,000 miles on VO as of 9/1/06

Installing VO conversion kits in Southern California, e-mail me. My e-mail is in my profile.

Plumbing the return in right before the intake (as opposed to returning to respective tank) would also cut down on the oil's resistance to flow to the IP as the total volume of oil being pulled the whole length of the fuel line whould be cut waaay down.

Of course if I did plumb right before the intake and after the feeding solenoid, I'd use one of those small inline filters.

If you did do it this way, and only used the one solenoid for the whole system, you would eliminate the possibility of sending diesel to VO tank or VO to D tank if one solenoid were to fail.

There would also never be any need to purge anything either, if your (only) solenoid is close to your spinon fuel filter or there is some heat going all the way to the inlet port.... I just recently re-aligned my fuel line going from spinon to intake solenoid just on top of a coolant hose, zip tied it good, and wrapped it with a piece of pipe insulation.

Tell me what you think guys/gals because I'm really wanting to try it but am afraid I'm overlooking some reason why it wouldn't work...

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How can I color inside the lines when I'm thinking outside the box!!??

It did it again!!!

Must be something new I didn't know about...

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How can I color inside the lines when I'm thinking outside the box!!??

I think I'm going to go ahead and plumb a small inline "insurance filter" between my incoming solenoid and the lift pump. Then I'm planning to run a line from the VO port of the return solenoid back to just before the "insurance filter".

This will slighty increase my shutdown time (currently 10 sec at idle) but will provide added protection to my IP by double filtering ALL incoming fuel and will offer much less resistance to flow when running veg (prolonging spinon filter life.)

Anybody see a problem with the idea?

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How can I color inside the lines when I'm thinking outside the box!!??

Quote:
Originally posted by: DK
Could you send me the info on a lift pump if you get one? I am having the same terrible filter life lately. I do think that it is wax also.

DK

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300sd 253,000 The gold 'Benz
300sd 390,000 The Red Beast

In the 300SDs we have done, we have used AirTex pumps, about 8 psi, or Master pumps, 5.5-9 psi. The Master ones are avaiable at AutoZone, and although the longest time I am aware of on one is about 6 months, I've never heard of a failure, and I know two people who have been installing them for a lot longer than 6 months. And for the $40-50 they cost, if they had to be replaced every 6 months, that would really be acceptable.

The ones where we have used that pump have non-looped returns. If you have a looped return, and you purge thru the supply line, you can't put the pump before the loop; you have to include it in the loop.

I have not put a pump in my Jetta, becasue I am now over 5,000 miles on my current filter, with nary a sign of any clogging.

I cleaned my tank. If polymerization was the cause of the short filter life (which I do not know) then cleaning it was the solution. I alos think that if the tank had to be cleaned once a year, that would also be acceptable.

But a lot of people don't clean their tanks out, even way after a year. So I don't know.

Jeff

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98 Jetta TDI, Frybrid kit, Installation thread here. 27,000 miles on VO as of 9/1/06
91 F-250, 7.3, 5-Spd. Blending in the rear tank while working on a homebrewed conversion. 8,000 miles on VO as of 9/1/06

Installing VO conversion kits in Southern California, e-mail me. My e-mail is in my profile.