NO MORE VEGGIE HERE>>> I'AM DONE WITH VEGGIE
October 10, 2004 - 10:44am
IT'S OVER I QUIT >>> NO MORE VEGGIE,, my friends lost 6 motors due to VEGGIE-DEATH, my diesel school bus has now got clogged up so bad on veggie that it wouldn't start, i drained all the veggie out and put new fuel filters on it, gotta get some diesel back in it, hopefully it didn't hurt it, the filters were new and clogged in less then 50 miles,they were really heavy, i filtered the oil really good before putting it in, i can't afford to loose a motor, so i'am done using veggie, most of the motors were lost not using kits, cold starting on cold veggie
October 10, 2004 - 12:43pm
#2
Instead of giving up, why don't you just go to the two tank system?
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I love my kind veggie '77 240D.
October 10, 2004 - 2:12pm
#3
one tank.
dON'T GIVE UP ON VEGGIE
hERES MY 2 CENTS
1) LIKE INDAGREAE SAID GO FOR THE 2 TANK SYSTEM
2) LIKE SOME OTHER CHAP SAID DO ROUTINE MOTOR OIL & FILTER ELEMENT CHANGES AND USE A GOOD QUALITY DIESEL RATED OIL
LIKE ROTELLA AND KEEP THE INT UNDER 4K MILES
3) MAKE SURE THE WVO IS REAL HOT BEFORE SWITCHING FROM DINO OR BIO DIESEL
4) REPLACE UR AIR CLEANER ELEMENT AT 15K MILES
5) FILTER UR VEGGIE TO 5 MICRONS
6) KEEP ROSARY BEADS IN YOUR GLOVEBOX AT ALL TIMES
7) KEEP UR SPEED UNDER 100MPH ON VEGGIE
8) TELL JEB BUSH TO KISS UR ASS
9) KEEP UR EYE ON THE OIL PRESSURE GUAGE NOT THE GIRLZ BIKINIS
10) PRAY FOR A CHANGE IN THE REGIME
Sincerely
Dave
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WHAZ UP hey all out there -nice to see some folks that aren't afraid to go against the grain and think for themselves and not just do as the masses!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 10, 2004 - 3:01pm
#4
Quote:
Originally posted by: one tank fla. mercedes
IT'S OVER I QUIT >>> NO MORE VEGGIE,, my friends lost 6 motors due to VEGGIE-DEATH, my diesel school bus has now got clogged up so bad on veggie that it wouldn't start, i drained all the veggie out and put new fuel filters on it, gotta get some diesel back in it, hopefully it didn't hurt it, the filters were new and clogged in less then 50 miles,they were really heavy, i filtered the oil really good before putting it in, i can't afford to loose a motor, so i'am done using veggie, most of the motors were lost not using kits, cold starting on cold veggie
I dont want to sound like a dick, but do you know enough to blame it on veggy? and besides, every where i look people are warning other people, that cold starting and running cold veggy will tear up you cylinder walls, rings and piston face and clogg your injectors and over work the lift pump, etc... If your filters clogged in less than 50 miles you have a filtering problem, or you have an algae problem.
will
-------------------------
1980 mercedes 300tdt
October 11, 2004 - 12:20pm
#5
Well I re-read your post and you say these motors were "cold started on cold veggie".
Hmmmm, maybe that is your problem?!?!?!?!
ALL the research shows that cold veggie will cause engine damage. Its all over the web and this site. Why did you choose to ignore this?!?!?!
Do you think everyone would go through the trouble to heat the VO if it wasnt necessary?!?!?!?!
Sorry to hear about the wasted engines, but it is your own fault in my opinion. To blame the VO for your own refusal to heed the warnings or your laziness is just wrong.
Many others have logged many thousands of trouble-free miles. The fact that your filters are clogging so quickly is a big indicator that you are not doing it right. I just got back from a 500 mile trip (all on VO) with no troubles, and the filter has over 2000 miles on it.
Spend a few more bucks, and a few more hours of your time, and you could run VO without worry. But dont blame the VO for your inability to play by the rules.
October 11, 2004 - 12:53pm
#6
AD, pretty harsh, I think he's learned why to heat WVO. You are right in that many folks who filter properly and HEAT before switching are not having wasted motors, 1998 Jetta 30,000 veggie miles and going strong.
-------------------------
KEEP ON GREASIN'
1998 VW Jetta, 1.9 L TDI
1994 Chevy Suburban, 6.5 L TD
1982 VW Westy in the bullpen.
October 11, 2004 - 1:17pm
#7
I'm With AD on this one. It's a known fact that the oil must be heated before being burned in the engine. This is not the fault of WVO.
October 11, 2004 - 2:45pm
#8
The ironic thing about all of this is how ole One Tank was telling all of us for so long how proud of his "cold starts down to 40 degrees" he was all the time. Now it turns out, that's what ruined his engine. It's hard to feel too sorry for him, when he was warned time and time again by users of this board of the probable damage he was causing. Sorry to say it, but this isn't a case of ignorance, it's just plain stupidity.
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I love my kind veggie '77 240D.
October 11, 2004 - 4:13pm
#9
Yes it was a tiny bit harsh, but I have been here a while, and if you search the archives you will see that he was repeatedly warned (like indagrease said).
In my first post I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt by giving him a chance to describe his systems and the details of how they failed....but then I re-read his post which said they were running cold VO.
I do feel bad for his 'friends' that were probably persuaded to do as he did without researching thoroughly, and also for the perfectly good engines that were ruined unnecessarily.
October 11, 2004 - 5:27pm
#10
I hope he doesn't give up on the veggie either.
Art
-------------------------
It's not Easy being Greasy!
99 Golf TDI Greasecar greased!
October 11, 2004 - 5:27pm
#11
He was warned and given good advice it's just too bad he didn't listen. "no expensive kits on my bus" I don't think he lost any engines though but six of his friends did. His bus has clogged filters after sitting a while. Hopefully he will learn from all his friends losses and from the people here and do it the right way (two tanks heated).
Art
-------------------------
It's not Easy being Greasy!
99 Golf TDI Greasecar greased!
October 11, 2004 - 6:11pm
#12
I do feel a little sorry for him, but it immediately stops when I think about the people that might have taken his advice. Now he's going to scare people away with an equally dislodged and overcapitalized statement. I am sure One Tank means well, but he should stop spouting off so much.
-------------------------
2001 Jetta TDI - Greasecar Kit
85 MBZ 300Dt - Heat Exchanger/Light blend Soon.
October 11, 2004 - 6:43pm
#13
Who will B the first one 'to beat' the two-tank system?
How many are 'aiming' 4 it?
Count me in on that one.
I'm working on three systems:
1) Cold veggie/propane mixture (1.1 tank?).
2) Cold veggie/injection of a gasoline mixture (1.1 tank?).
3) And my favorite: heating the veggie to about 230* right before the injector (a true ONE tank!).
Wish me luck (I'll need it!).
-------------------------
'82 240 Volvo 4 spd std. O.D. N-T inline 6
VeggieOilSaysShoveItOPEC.com
VeggieOilFuelsMyCar.com
ShoveItOPECbig3.us
October 11, 2004 - 7:48pm
#14
Elsbett has been doing it for a while. The kits ain't cheap though.
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I love my kind veggie '77 240D.
October 11, 2004 - 10:50pm
#15
indagrease,
I'm talking a 'DIY' system AND less then about $600.
I haven't checked into that system though I can imagine the price.
-------------------------
'82 240 Volvo 4 spd std. O.D. N-T inline 6
VeggieOilSaysShoveItOPEC.com
VeggieOilFuelsMyCar.com
ShoveItOPECbig3.us
October 12, 2004 - 2:57am
#16
'Two Tank' has a better ring to it anyway....as far as street names go..
ha!
October 12, 2004 - 4:58am
#17
Although I feel bad for anyone who experimented with SVO and failed (even with fair warning), this post will serve as important for those who are thinking of using SVO without a conversion kit or DIY modification.
For those running unheated SVO, it is a matter of "when," not "if" engine failure will occur.
My Grandfather gave me some good advice once:
A stupid man can't learn from his own mistakes.
A smart man can.
A wise man can learn from others' mistakes.
Anyone who is contemplating using vegetable oil as a fuel should definitely learn from One Tank's Mistake. Use a 2-tank system and heat your oil. IT'S WORTH THE MONEY.
Now LACruiser is determined to be able to use SVO in a 1-tank system. His situation is different, however, with SVO blends and heat exchangers. Maybe he'll be successful and log hundreds of thousands of veggie miles. But failure is also a distinct possibility. And huge 18-wheeler engines are at stake, not those of pre-85 Mercedes.
Those who experiment should definitely post their results, for good or ill, here so that forum folks can learn from their mistakes.
Thank you One Tank for allowing us to follow your experiment. Sorry your experience turned out bad. But maybe you'll get back up on the horse again.
-------------------------
If a horse can eat green *&!# and run like a mother-&*#!er then so can {my car}!
-Miles Davis
October 12, 2004 - 3:02pm
#18
my international 9 liter school bus is up and running again, guess the veggie oil just clogged up the 2 new fuel filters from sitting 3 months and not being started, i filled the 2 BRAND NEWER 15.00 filters with close to half gallon of marvel mystry oil, they are huge filters, i sprayed wd-40 into the air cleaner intake and the bus started right up, diesel has shot up to $2.15 a gallon here in the tampa bay area, i would consider going back to veggie in the bus but i would want a 2 tank system, and the veggie would have to be hot going in, i would want to start up and shut down on diesel, my 85 300d turbo survived the hurricanes and is still starting on cold veggie
October 12, 2004 - 4:07pm
#19
Two tanks is the way to go. In florida its warm so you wouldn't have heat the veggie tank. Just start up on diesel until hot and then switch to veggie. I would use a heat exchanger before the injection pump so the veggie is nice and hot going in to the engine. This should be pretty easy and cheap to set up. I would do the same for your Benz. This along with good timely oil changes should keep all your veggie machines running a long time and many miles. Good luck!!
Art
-------------------------
It's not Easy being Greasy!
99 Golf TDI Greasecar greased!
October 12, 2004 - 7:13pm
#20
I agree, heating the engine first is the critical part. you already have a heat exchanger on the benz, set up a small diesel tank, and keep running your OEM for veggie. I'm in the panhandle, and that is my plan.
P.S. glad you weathered Sept. OK
October 13, 2004 - 5:21am
#21
HEY INDA,
I checked out the Elsbitt website - REALLY INTERESTING
Thanks for the info.
Dave
-------------------------
WHAZ UP hey all out there -nice to see some folks that aren't afraid to go against the grain and think for themselves and not just do as the masses!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 13, 2004 - 8:46am
#22
I wonder what an Elsbett kit consists of? Nowhere on the site does it specifically say what components are used.
Very expensive to ship such heavy items to the US from Germany however...
Regarding one tank systems: I still haven't seen any way to heat the fuel in the injection pump and injector lines when starting. So it seems cold starts are inevitable.
Unless! one were to electrically pump the cold fuel through the return lines while heating the fuel electrically. With a sensor one could automate the starting process so that the fuel would be circulated back to the tank until it got heated to the right temperature, at which point it could be routed to the injectors.
I have no idea if that is even possible and where one would put the postulated valves or extra return lines.
-------------------------
Thanks,
Gabriel
_________________________
"Clarence Brown" - 1983 Mercedes 300D Turbo
Getting ready to vedge out!
October 13, 2004 - 9:43am
#23
Gdvine,
The Elsbett kit consists of a heat exchanger, electrically heated filter, different injectors, and adjusted valves. Pretty simple concept, but they charge a whole lot for the kit and even more to install it for you. My friend paid $2500 for the kit + installation. Plus, it is extremely difficult to get in touch with them.
The kit is designed to burn either diesel, bio-diesel, or SVO at any time, as long as the fuel is liquid. This may be a problem under 40 degrees, so my friend will use regular diesel when it gets cold.
-------------------------
If a horse can eat green *&!# and run like a mother-&*#!er then so can {my car}!
-Miles Davis
October 13, 2004 - 12:54pm
#24
Justgreaseonfries... AD was not harsh. One tank posted each time a motor blew up trying to figure out how to make it not happen, yet he kept doing the same thing regardless of the fact that everyone kept telling him to NOT USE ONE TANK.
Quite frankly it is hilarious that him and his friends kept doing it... oh well.
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- Windaria
October 13, 2004 - 3:37pm
#25
I think Gdvine's plan would still leave fuel between the pump and the injectors that was not heated. But look into it.
And there is someone in central Connecticut who has a biodiesel coop and also bought an Elsbett kit. He has a journal of it somewhere on the web; searching under biodiesel, elsbett and Connecticut might bring it up. He did have some problems at cold temps.
October 14, 2004 - 5:17am
#26
Some people are slower learners than others and ONE TANK FLA and his friends just took a little longer then average. Most likely they are a little stubborn too. Anyway I am sure he/they learned from the mistakes this time. ONE TANK FLA seems to be going the two tank route now. I home he encourages his friends to do the same if they are still into veggie.
Art
-------------------------
It's not Easy being Greasy!
99 Golf TDI Greasecar greased!
October 14, 2004 - 9:40am
#27
Points:
1) Engine must be at temperature to insure that the cylinder walls are hot enough to vaporize oil rather than letting it become a carbaceous deposit and damage the rings.
2) VO must be at least 170F in order for the injectors to achieve a proper spray pattern resulting in more complete combustion. Injector POP pressure should also be bumped up and injector timing advanced slightly.
3) Engine must be started and shut down on diesel and the fuel system purged of all VO before shut down.
These simple points will minimize any possibility of the buildup of engine destroying carbon and the possibility of gelled VO in the fuel system causing injector damage and no-starts.
Chris
PS. Get a really good heat exchanger.
October 16, 2004 - 6:58pm
#28
How long does it take to "purge" the veggie before shutdown?
Thanks...
October 17, 2004 - 9:17am
#29
Oil Sump temperature is always 1.2 to 1.43 times higher than the coolant temp.
Wouldn't it be feasable to use engine sump oil instead of radiator water for the pre-IP heat exchanger?
Exhaust gases are hotter still and provide heat quicker then coolant or oil.
-------------------------
'82 240 Volvo 4 spd std. O.D. N-T inline 6
VeggieOilSaysShoveItOPEC.com
VeggieOilFuelsMyCar.com
ShoveItOPECbig3.us
October 17, 2004 - 10:14am
#30
Perhaps, but for safety's sake, you can lose coolant and know about it, usually before you damage your engine. If you use a veggie/oil heat exchanger, and it leaked, you may end up in a bad situation. The coolant is a stable temp source also,
October 17, 2004 - 12:20pm
#31
Certainly the design and construction of the engine oil / VO heat exchanger will be critical to the reliability of the entire plot but if done properly I can't see that its any more risky than an external oil cooler, which is a standard fitment on many high performance engines.
October 17, 2004 - 1:00pm
#32
You could also do the same with automatic transmission oil. It would be easy to tap into the external tranny oil cooler. Just a thought.
Art
-------------------------
It's not Easy being Greasy!
99 Golf TDI Greasecar greased!
October 19, 2004 - 6:54am
#33
Hey One-Tank, I hate to stir the pot here, but what exactly happened to the 6 engines that failed? Was there a boroscope done that found problems? Were the engines torn down? Were the injector pumps examined? You said you lost the Bus too, then just changed the filters and you're back on the road.. What about your filtering? As we all know, poor filtering will drastically accelerate the wear on the IP and injectors, as will any water in the fuel. Did a mechanic deteremine what damage was done, or did the cars just start running poorly? I'm just curious what physical damage was done by your "learning experience".
October 24, 2004 - 8:15pm
#34
bump
October 25, 2004 - 4:01pm
#35
Heres some advice from someone who has a lot of experiance with diesels and motor oil.
Rotella is not the oil of choice fro me. I use delvac. Its a much better oil, it does not break down nearly as quick, There is no reason to change a diesel cars motor oil before 10000 miles. Thats how long semi tractors go between changes, anything more is a waste of money.
-------------------------
Less of my money to the Arabs.
October 25, 2004 - 4:41pm
#36
This is an opinion that very few others share.
For example, I have an '83 Mercedes 300D Turbo. That engine is very unlike modern semi engines. In addition, the way I drive, with frequent short trips around town, is MUCH harder on any engine, especially a diesel, than the 1000 mile cruises semis do.
In addition the soot content is known to be very high in these old diesels. Even using 100% synthetic many people feel 616's and 617's shouldn't go over 5000 miles on the same oil.
If you want to go more than 5000 miles on ANY oil in an old diesel, get the oil tested!
I was thinking of going synthetic but the cost of testing the oil completely outweighs the supposed cost savings of having to change the oil less often. I'm going to stick to Delo 400 every 3000 miles.
-------------------------
Thanks,
Gabriel
_________________________
"Clarence Brown" - 1983 Mercedes 300D Turbo
Getting ready to vedge out!
October 25, 2004 - 5:52pm
#37
The key is to use a mercedes 300 preferably or a cummins and the Neoteric biofuels kit has worked well on one tank for me. I know many people here in The San Francisco Bay Area who run one tank WVO Mercedes 300's '84 is best and have no problems. I also know a dude in Homer, Alaska who runs a one tank Cummins year round by using a block heater and having a small Webasto plumbing inline as a preheater that pumps up the fuel temp as soon as he starts his rig.
October 26, 2004 - 1:31am
#38
According to many people -- some of whom claim their opinions are based on studies -- injecting VO into a cold engine will cause carbaceous deposits. Ask cgoodwin (Chris).
Also the VO that is left in the injectors and injection pump can never be heated to the proper temp (170F) at startup.
How many miles have these people driven with cold starts? I'll be impressed if they've run more than 50,000.
In any case I plan to start up on biodiesel, not petro diesel. And hopefully I can get a line on this new vegetable-based engine oil as well. Anyone?
-------------------------
Thanks,
Gabriel
_________________________
"Clarence Brown" - 1983 Mercedes 300D Turbo
Getting ready to vedge out!
October 26, 2004 - 2:45pm
#39
Here is an idea that I had for heating the foot or two of veggie line that went from my heated filter to the IP. This section of fuel line (copper tubing) was not near any coolant lines.
I went to wal-mart and purchased a single heating element burner for about 8 dollars. The burner is made of one long heating element coiled into the shape of a burner. The element is flexible and can easily be bent to any shape you choose. Uncoiled it's about 2 or 3 feet long. This could be attached to the copper fuel line and plugged into a 110v outlet for just a minute or two to ungel/pre-heat the oil in this short stretch of line prior to starting in cold weather.
Other components such as injector lines and possibly even the IP could be heated with a similiar method.
The disadvantage is that this system would only work for pre-heating when 110 volts is available. It's difficult to produce the amount of heat necessary to do this kind of work from 12 volts.
October 26, 2004 - 4:05pm
#40
HEY GREASEPOWERED,
THIS WAS GREAT THINKING UR GREY MATTER IS
WORKING WELL> U CAN GET A INVERTER TO CONVERT 12V DC TO ALT CURRENT (AC) TO RUN UR HOMEMADE HEATER IT WOULD HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SUPPLY 1500 WATTS.
KEEP ON THINKING DONT LET THE BURNED VEGGIE OIL BE STINKIN
DAVE
-------------------------
WHAZ UP hey all out there -nice to see some folks that aren't afraid to go against the grain and think for themselves and not just do as the masses!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 27, 2004 - 2:20pm
#41
i'am considering going back to veggie in my diesel 9 liter school bus, but i would have to cold start and shut down on diesel, i can get a brand new 76 gallon alum fuel tank from the marine surplus place here for 100.00 it would be my veggie tank
October 27, 2004 - 10:34pm
#42
One Tank,
That sounds good, use it along with the heat exchanger and your bus should run a long time without any troubles. Make sure to filter your oil good too. Good luck with the bus and keep us posted. I am glad to see you didn't give up on the veggie.
Art
-------------------------
It's not Easy being Greasy!
99 Golf TDI Greasecar greased!
November 1, 2004 - 4:49pm
#43
My neighbor broke one of her well manicured nails and flew into a psychotic rage, ran down the street screaming and waving her arms. She now wears a straight jacket and lives in an insane asylum, heavily sedated.
Oh my god! I dont want this to happen to me! Because of this I had all of my nails surgically removed. Nope! Wont happen to me!
Moral of the story, you are a DORK! one mile. You dont know exactly what happend to your inbred friends engines. Makes no sense to generalize and jump to conclusions because your toothless friends had some bad luck. (Y'all)
November 1, 2004 - 5:33pm
#44
If you convert it to a two tank system, you have to change your screen name :)
-------------------------
85 300D - Heated 2 tank system "family mobile"
69 Pontiac GTO - "the show"
96 WS6 Formula - 11.9 @122mph "the go"
November 1, 2004 - 7:42pm
#45
The greaser formerly known as One Tank?!
November 4, 2004 - 6:42am
#46
How about one tankx2 or maybe dual one tanks?
Art
-------------------------
It's not Easy being Greasy!
99 Golf TDI Greasecar greased! 3000 grease miles
November 4, 2004 - 11:03am
#47
Quote:
Originally posted by: greasypig
Heres some advice from someone who has a lot of experiance with diesels and motor oil.
Rotella is not the oil of choice fro me. I use delvac. Its a much better oil, it does not break down nearly as quick, There is no reason to change a diesel cars motor oil before 10000 miles. Thats how long semi tractors go between changes, anything more is a waste of money.
-------------------------
Less of my money to the Arabs.
Running Mobil 1 Truck & SUV (same as Delvac 1). Changing between 7000 & 8000 mile interval. Holds 4 1/2 qts. Do you realize how many quarts a semi tractor holds? Its measured in terms of gallons, not quarts. But then on the other hand, Cummins is recommending even longer intervals between changes in their newer engines!
-------------------------
Hauled enough dino petroleum products!!!
March 3, 2007 - 4:35pm
#48
Hey 1 Tank,
Rememeber this thread??
Can you clarify?
BB
-------------------------
G R 8 to C PEEPs aren't afraid 2 go against the grain- think 4 themselves & not just do as the masses!http://www.metroups.com/article
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/24/earlyshow/contributors/melinda...
March 3, 2007 - 6:47pm
#49
that was almost 2 1/2 years ago... I'AM COMMING UP TO 4 YEARS ON VEGGIE NOW :}:}:}
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March 4, 2007 - 6:35pm
#50
And the truth shall set you free.
Glad to see some honest results here. Got rather tired of OT claiming up and down a MB can run forever on veg oil unheated with no kit. Of course its not 100% veg either like he normally proclaims if you read more of his posts you know he blends tranny fluid and some other crap he gets tons of for free into his veg.
-------------------------
01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Veg 04-06 now mixing into the HHO
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html
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Im curious about this because so many others have gone veggie for years without problems.
Could you please describe the systems in use by these 6 other motors?
Do they all use unheated VO like you did?
How many miles before problems started?
What exactly do you mean by "lost motors" and "veggie death"?
This could provide us with some good info if you give us some more details please.