Which presidential candidate is best for alt fuel?
October 30, 2007 - 3:38pm
Can we discuss how the each candidate would address the petroleum energy crisis and our alternatives?
Assertions should be supported by something other than because I think so. Tell us why you think so.
I have my own assumptions but make no claim to know all of the candidates positions on this matter.
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02 TDI GC 2 tank 54000 trouble free miles
79 300D Fattywagon 1 tanker (we'll see how this one works out!)
Zero to 60 in 37.6 seconds. Go ahead, drool away.
October 30, 2007 - 4:53pm
#2
stephen colbert
;-)
(yay SC!!)
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?Some people never go crazy, What truly horrible lives they must live?
-chinaski
October 30, 2007 - 5:55pm
#3
Quote:
Originally posted by: Henry David Thoreau
Can we discuss how the each candidate would address the petroleum energy crisis and our alternatives?
Assertions should be supported by something other than because I think so. Tell us why you think so.
I have my own assumptions but make no claim to know all of the candidates positions on this matter.
-------------------------
02 TDI GC 2 tank 54000 trouble free miles
79 300D Fattywagon 1 tanker (we'll see how this one works out!)
Zero to 60 in 37.6 seconds. Go ahead, drool away.
I wish i could even say i know how any of the candidates feel about alt fuels. I keep hearing about how they are either going to end the war (a total joke i think) or step up efforts.
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01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Veg 04-06 now mixing into the HHO
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html
October 30, 2007 - 6:13pm
#4
You want facts???
Joe Biden on Energy & Oil
Democratic Sr Senator (DE)
? Make every automobile sold be a flex-fuel automobile. (Apr 2007)
? Voted YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies. (Jun 2007)
? Voted YES on factoring global warming into federal project planning. (May 2007)
? Voted YES on disallowing an oil leasing program in Alaska's ANWR. (Nov 2005)
? Voted YES on $3.1B for emergency oil assistance for hurricane-hit areas. (Oct 2005)
? Voted YES on reducing oil usage by 40% by 2025 (instead of 5%). (Jun 2005)
? Voted YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. (Mar 2005)
? Voted YES on Bush Administration Energy Policy. (Jul 2003)
? Voted YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010. (Jun 2003)
? Voted YES on removing consideration of drilling ANWR from budget bill. (Mar 2003)
? Voted NO on drilling ANWR on national security grounds. (Apr 2002)
? Voted NO on terminating CAFE standards within 15 months. (Mar 2002)
? Voted NO on preserving budget for ANWR oil drilling. (Apr 2000)
? Voted NO on ending discussion of CAFE fuel efficiency standards. (Sep 1999)
? Voted NO on defunding renewable and solar energy. (Jun 1999)
? Voted NO on approving a nuclear waste repository. (Apr 1997)
? Voted NO on do not require ethanol in gasoline. (Aug 1994)
? Keep efficient air conditioner rule to conserve energy. (Mar 2004)
Sam Brownback on Energy & Oil
Republican Sr Senator (KS)
? Get more biodiesel & biofuels into system to prevent $4 gas. (May 2007)
? Voted NO on disallowing an oil leasing program in Alaska's ANWR. (Nov 2005)
? Voted NO on $3.1B for emergency oil assistance for hurricane-hit areas. (Oct 2005)
? Voted NO on reducing oil usage by 40% by 2025 (instead of 5%). (Jun 2005)
? Voted NO on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. (Mar 2005)
? Voted YES on Bush Administration Energy Policy. (Jul 2003)
? Voted YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010. (Jun 2003)
? Voted NO on removing consideration of drilling ANWR from budget bill. (Mar 2003)
? Voted YES on drilling ANWR on national security grounds. (Apr 2002)
? Voted YES on terminating CAFE standards within 15 months. (Mar 2002)
? Voted YES on preserving budget for ANWR oil drilling. (Apr 2000)
? Voted NO on ending discussion of CAFE fuel efficiency standards. (Sep 1999)
? Voted NO on defunding renewable and solar energy. (Jun 1999)
? Voted YES on approving a nuclear waste repository. (Apr 1997)
Hillary Clinton on Energy & Oil
Democratic Jr Senator (NY)
? Invest in alternative energy; jobs that won't be outsourced. (Aug 2007)
? End Big Oil tax break; $50 billion for strategic energy fund. (Jul 2007)
? Agnostic about nuclear power until waste & cost issue solved. (Jul 2007)
? FactCheck: There was no Big Oil tax break under Bush-Cheney. (Jul 2007)
? Energy Independence 2020: $50B for Strategic Energy Fund. (Jun 2007)
? Will make big oil fund alternative energy research. (Feb 2007)
? $50B strategic energy fund from taxing oil companies. (Oct 2006)
? Remove energy dependence on countries who would harm us. (Jun 2006)
? Supports oil reserve release & fund conservation. (Oct 2000)
? Voting Record
? Ratify Kyoto; more mass transit. (Sep 2000)
? Voted YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies. (Jun 2007)
? Voted YES on making oil-producing and exporting cartels illegal. (Jun 2007)
? Voted YES on factoring global warming into federal project planning. (May 2007)
? Voted YES on disallowing an oil leasing program in Alaska's ANWR. (Nov 2005)
? Voted YES on $3.1B for emergency oil assistance for hurricane-hit areas. (Oct 2005)
? Voted YES on reducing oil usage by 40% by 2025 (instead of 5%). (Jun 2005)
? Voted YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. (Mar 2005)
? Voted NO on Bush Administration Energy Policy. (Jul 2003)
? Voted YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010. (Jun 2003)
? Voted YES on removing consideration of drilling ANWR from budget bill. (Mar 2003)
? Voted NO
October 30, 2007 - 6:08pm
#5
Relatively easy to find their position on alt. fuels by looking up there voting record.
Congress and the senate passed new energy bills that just need the small differences hammered out.
If there not currently a representitive---flip a coin.
October 30, 2007 - 6:42pm
#6
I guess I like Tancredo for energy. Only one vote I didnt like.
I dont like subsidies for any form of energy; fossil based or otherwise..
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Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
October 30, 2007 - 8:25pm
#7
Its a tough call on who would make a good president and
Restore Dignaty Back in the White House.
Thruthfully I would like to see Al Gore as president.
Second no Joe two face lieberman. his state of Conneticut is banning diesel engines for 2008... But this isnt the only reason why. Remember when he debated with slick cheny they were buddy buddy good old friends on STAGE. He played both sides of the table and to me you cant trust a guy like that...
I think a good vice president would Kucinich...
I think Hilary is as currupt as the rest of the pack especially Rudy...
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October 30, 2007 - 9:11pm
#8
Thank you Thesst!
A great deal of research to go through but worth it!
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02 TDI GC 2 tank 54000 trouble free miles
79 300D Fattywagon 1 tanker (we'll see how this one works out!)
Zero to 60 in 37.6 seconds. Go ahead, drool away.
October 30, 2007 - 9:12pm
#9
Quote:
Originally posted by: Tom Yaz
I guess I like Tancredo for energy. Only one vote I didnt like.
I dont like subsidies for any form of energy; fossil based or otherwise..
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Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
Hum?
You mean the way resturant owners subsidize our grease by paying $14 a cube and selling it to us for 10 cents a gallon or give it to us for free.
October 31, 2007 - 1:16am
#10
Henry,
Your comparison is not even in the same sport, yet alone ballpark. A subsidy is payment to cover the excess cost of production versus market value of the finished good.
A restaraunt buying the oil and selling at a loss is NOT being "subsidized" because:
A: the restaraunt is using up a finished good. The near zero worth of the oil is its "scrap value". Totally different subject. To say that the restaraunt is subsidizing my oil is like saying I am subsidizing for the junkers benefit the scrap car I sold to the junker for $100 that I bought new for $25K. The junker is paying fair market value for scrap, as are greasers
B: Furthermore if you wanted to claim there was a true "subsidy" to the restaurants use of veggie oil, you would have to be seeing the govt paying for the depreciation of the oil. Which would benefit the restaraunt but really do nothing to affect the scrap value of the oil. And of course nothing of the sort is going on today.
Man you guys got to stop creating squirlley new definitions to fit the agneda. First "war profiteer" now "subsidy"
Repeat, no subsidies for ANY fuel of ANY type. Let the most cost effective fuel win; and help stop the wasting of taxpayer dollars on BS.
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Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
October 31, 2007 - 8:46am
#11
So you are saying that you would pay three dollars a gallon for veg? Doesn't the resturant owner buy your fuel for you, only for the cost in effort to collect and filter?
I wonder how he/she feels about whether or not they subsidize your energy use? Try it. Tell the how much of their grease you use, how much money that saves you and wait for their responce. It is my experience that even mom and pops want something in return when they figure out the depth and scope of what we are doing with THEIR veg oil.
The petroleum coming into the U.S. from Saudi Arabia is subsidized through your taxes. We pay for military equipment and technology that is shared with the Saudis so they can retain power over their people and the region. They in turn sell us crude for fall below world market value.
October 31, 2007 - 9:12am
#12
How much below market value? Do you have actual figures, or are you just making this up? Where do you get your information from?
October 31, 2007 - 9:20am
#13
"So you are saying that you would pay three dollars a gallon for veg?"
Uh no... If the market price is too high its not worth my trouble. End of story. No subsidy exists or required...
"Doesn't the resturant owner buy your fuel for you?"
Uh no...he buys it to cook his food. The used up oil is a residual waste product that may or may not have a market value. No subsidy exists or required.
"I wonder how he/she feels about whether or not they subsidize your energy use? Try it. Tell the how much of their grease you use, how much money that saves you and wait for their responce. It is my experience that even mom and pops want something in return when they figure out the depth and scope of what we are doing with THEIR veg oil. "
I always tell them how much money I save. They smile and tell me how happy they are to be rid of the disposal hassle and costs. Now if they wanted to charge me for it becasue they now think it has a greater value than before, thats their right, and I have a right to not buy it if I choose. Free Market. No subsidy exists or required.
"The petroleum coming into the U.S. from Saudi Arabia is subsidized through your taxes"
Well I dont believe in energy subsidies and it should be eliminated. So we agree. What does this have to do with the
phantom veggie oil subsidy?
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Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
October 31, 2007 - 9:40am
#14
Re: Oil/Veg Sub
What I am trying to demonstrate is that we are all dependant upon one another. No one person/group/nation works in isolation.
The idea that the U.S. or I for that matter am able to fuction in the world without the help of others is a fallacy.
Subsidies are build into our social systems to control behavior, good or bad. I believe that subsidizing Saudi oil was at one time probably good for the U.S. (following the 2nd world war)
Today, I'm not so sure. Perhaps subsidizing renewable energy for a period of time, in which it can become self sufficient, would prevent future generations from; having to depend on foreign energy sources, go to war, and learn arabic.
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02 TDI GC 2 tank 54000 trouble free miles
79 300D Fattywagon 1 tanker (we'll see how this one works out!)
Zero to 60 in 37.6 seconds. Go ahead, drool away.
October 31, 2007 - 9:51am
#15
The best way to help one another is to utilize ones talents to provide goods and service to others. By doing so you help others while providing for oneself. The motto on my web site is "Success thru Servanthood to Others" That means I use my talents and abilities to serv others as best I can. The rewards will follow. And yes of course we are all dependant on others. Free Enterprise, albeit imperfect, is the best method of helping one another that has been figured out so far. Govt interference should be used very carefully or else we get what is obviously BS...exanmple: subsidies to oil companies that dont need them.
You see we are not that far apart...
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Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
October 31, 2007 - 9:57am
#16
Perhaps, where we do part is, I believe we all should be compelled to some extent to participate in our own salvation.
You believe that we can make this energy depedence shift on a voluntary basis?
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02 TDI GC 2 tank 54000 trouble free miles
79 300D Fattywagon 1 tanker (we'll see how this one works out!)
Zero to 60 in 37.6 seconds. Go ahead, drool away.
October 31, 2007 - 10:38am
#17
Quote:
Originally posted by: Henry David Thoreau
Perhaps, where we do part is, I believe we all should be compelled to some extent to participate in our own salvation.
You believe that we can make this energy depedence shift on a voluntary basis?
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02 TDI GC 2 tank 54000 trouble free miles
79 300D Fattywagon 1 tanker (we'll see how this one works out!)
Zero to 60 in 37.6 seconds. Go ahead, drool away.
Yes it wil happen voluntarily with this one caveat: It will happen when people find it in their own self interest to do so.
Lets face it, at our core we are motivated by self-interest more than any other factor. Its a fact of nature and will never be overcome to the extant you may desire.
But I dont think creating an artiitfical motivation (subsidies) is
ALWAYS the right idea. Certainly not for fuel, as those baseless subsidies prove. Those subsidies to big oil only
protects the oil companies margins and does nothing to spur innovation. Let the market decide. Relax, H-Man it will work out ok in the end if given the chance.
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Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
October 31, 2007 - 10:49am
#18
Quote:
Originally posted by: Henry David Thoreau
Perhaps, where we do part is, I believe we all should be compelled to some extent to participate in our own salvation.
You believe that we can make this energy depedence shift on a voluntary basis?
-------------------------
02 TDI GC 2 tank 54000 trouble free miles
79 300D Fattywagon 1 tanker (we'll see how this one works out!)
Zero to 60 in 37.6 seconds. Go ahead, drool away.
Henry 81sd and TY are braiwashed right wingers all they do is stand at attention while babby pooh is flung at them and accept scraps.
Like all the attemps to privatise our country and reduce Government so it can spend tax payer money on things besides the tax payer.
In the Military you are trained to be an individual because your entire unit can be wiped out in 3 minutes and you need to fight on or regroup.
In our society we are individuals who are in a country that needs everybody and everybody should benefit from the tax payments created by our Govt. at frederal and state levels even taxes collected within our own community.
So if you are not Educated inteligent or lucky to be born from rich parents you will pay taxs and get nothing from it only you will set your virtue and protection.
But when called upon to participate the needy will stand and serve because its better then working in walmart for $7.00 an hour.
But 81 and TY forget that the Federal Govt. members who want to make everbody make there own decisions have the best the land can offer Pensions, Healthcare, and protection. onlythey are intitled to Federally funded health car and retirement even at state levels....
Its the same with our fuel crisis the only people the high fuel prices effect are the working class and poor who have educations and are hard workers but didnt make the millions to not be effected by the decisions of our federal Govt.
cangress and the states.
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October 31, 2007 - 12:24pm
#19
DC,
Your perception of reality is amusing to say the least!
I hope you dont ever get mad here and run away, as you are certainly are a "treausure" here at greasecar.com. Hat tip to you brotha!
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Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
October 31, 2007 - 7:24pm
#20
Quote:
Originally posted by: Tom Yaz
DC,
Your perception of reality is amusing to say the least!
I hope you dont ever get mad here and run away, as you are certainly are a "treausure" here at greasecar.com. Hat tip to you brotha!
-------------------------
Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
Tyhank you Tom your kind words are appreciated.
Bush wants to privatise healthcar SS education ect. Will he lead the way by giving up his pension and his health care and prtection that the federal govt will ahve to pay him. is he going to give up his pension from texas. Will his wife give up her pension and pay for there daughters health care. Or will they expect the woking families who are educated and are trying to better themselves and there children be the only one effected by his proposals.
When bush and his entire family give up federal healthcare and there pensions and pay for there families healthcare then i will listen to the BS.
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October 31, 2007 - 8:53pm
#21
Quote:
Originally posted by: DieselCrazy
Quote:
Originally posted by: Tom Yaz
DC,
Your perception of reality is amusing to say the least!
I hope you dont ever get mad here and run away, as you are certainly are a "treausure" here at greasecar.com. Hat tip to you brotha!
-------------------------
Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
Tyhank you Tom your kind words are appreciated.
Bush wants to privatise healthcar SS education ect. Will he lead the way by giving up his pension and his health care and prtection that the federal govt will ahve to pay him. is he going to give up his pension from texas. Will his wife give up her pension and pay for there daughters health care. Or will they expect the woking families who are educated and are trying to better themselves and there children be the only one effected by his proposals.
When bush and his entire family give up federal healthcare and there pensions and pay for there families healthcare then i will listen to the BS.
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Ummm, excuse me: why should they give up their government healthcare? Their employer IS the federal government. People get their pensions from the companies they worked for. If you worked for the federal gov't, you get a federal pension.
What the privatizers are saying (and I fully agree) is: if you do NOT work for the federal gov't, why should YOU get a federal pension?
As for privatizing schools, it's an excellent idea. Private schools can provide better education at a far lower cost per student. Put the HUGE tax dollars that taxpayers are paying now to support a bloated public education system, and put them back into the hands of the people sending their kids to school. I anticipate the next whine: "But some families, even with those tax dollars back in their hands, won't be able to afford a private education!" Privatizing ALL education will result in CHEAPER education due to competition. The reason that private schools now are semi-expensive is that they have to support an entire school infrastructure off of a small number of students. It's basic supply and demand. Supply is low, demand is high, cost is high. So if supply meets demand (ie supply is high, demand is high) cost will be considerably lower.
I would be all for continuing public education is our legislators had the balls to trim all the fat out of the public education system (first order of business: eliminate teachers unions), but as that is obviously not going to happen anytime soon, privitization (or at least semi-privatization via school vouchers) is the way to go.
October 31, 2007 - 9:45pm
#22
Quote:
Originally posted by: Thesst
Quote:
Originally posted by: DieselCrazy
Quote:
Originally posted by: Tom Yaz
DC,
Your perception of reality is amusing to say the least!
I hope you dont ever get mad here and run away, as you are certainly are a "treausure" here at greasecar.com. Hat tip to you brotha!
-------------------------
Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
Tyhank you Tom your kind words are appreciated.
Bush wants to privatise healthcar SS education ect. Will he lead the way by giving up his pension and his health care and prtection that the federal govt will ahve to pay him. is he going to give up his pension from texas. Will his wife give up her pension and pay for there daughters health care. Or will they expect the woking families who are educated and are trying to better themselves and there children be the only one effected by his proposals.
When bush and his entire family give up federal healthcare and there pensions and pay for there families healthcare then i will listen to the BS.
-------------------------
Ummm, excuse me: why should they give up their government healthcare? Their employer IS the federal government. People get their pensions from the companies they worked for. If you worked for the federal gov't, you get a federal pension.
What the privatizers are saying (and I fully agree) is: if you do NOT work for the federal gov't, why should YOU get a federal pension?
As for privatizing schools, it's an excellent idea. Private schools can provide better education at a far lower cost per student. Put the HUGE tax dollars that taxpayers are paying now to support a bloated public education system, and put them back into the hands of the people sending their kids to school. I anticipate the next whine: "But some families, even with those tax dollars back in their hands, won't be able to afford a private education!" Privatizing ALL education will result in CHEAPER education due to competition. The reason that private schools now are semi-expensive is that they have to support an entire school infrastructure off of a small number of students. It's basic supply and demand. Supply is low, demand is high, cost is high. So if supply meets demand (ie supply is high, demand is high) cost will be considerably lower.
I would be all for continuing public education is our legislators had the balls to trim all the fat out of the public education system (first order of business: eliminate teachers unions), but as that is obviously not going to happen anytime soon, privitization (or at least semi-privatization via school vouchers) is the way to go.
Whine Whine, You agree on providing healthcare for politicians but you would be against federally funded healthcare for all? As to say a National Health Care System Like every other country on earth has exept the USA.
If the people who in fact are paying taxs are asking there Govt. to provide social healthcare then I believe it should be provided to them. If the elected govenors and all politicians including the president votes to not have a social health care then they should not be enitled to and federally or state or city health car plan that is paid by the tax payer....
Public schools were made in order for the Govt. to educate there citizens in order to be able to read and write and babysit, and is funded by the federal Govt.
where does the Feds get money to pay for social programs from citizens and buisness, and buisness suports education in order to have an educate work force.
But as Govt. grows and money is short due to corporate wellfare and the payment of m
October 31, 2007 - 10:42pm
#23
First: can you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE try to be more coherent in your rambling? I know 5-year-olds who write with more structure, accuracy, grammar, and basic coherency than you do. Work on it, please.
Whine Whine, You agree on providing healthcare for politicians but you would be against federally funded healthcare for all? As to say a National Health Care System Like every other country on earth has exept the USA.
I agree on an employer providing healthcare (or at least making it available as an option) to its employees. Hence, if someone works for the federal gov't, the federal gov't provides their healthcare. This is not a difficult concept. Just like if you, DC, worked for the federal gov't (I can picture you with the SSA...), whether as a lowly janitor of a federal building or as a politician, you should recieve health insurance from the federal gov't. If you do not work for them, you should not. How can I put it any simpler?
If the people who in fact are paying taxs are asking there Govt. to provide social healthcare then I believe it should be provided to them.
I agree. That's what elections are for. You elect people whom you want to do for you what you want. Obviously, the fact that we do NOT have a socialized healthcare system indicates that perhaps the majority of people do NOT want our healthcare system to be as inefficient and bogged down as Canada's or GB's.
If the elected govenors and all politicians including the president votes to not have a social health care then they should not be enitled to and federally or state or city health car plan that is paid by the tax payer....
Again: the employer should provide healthcare for their employees. This would be like saying, "I shop at Walgreen's so I should get the same insurance they do because I'm paying for their insurance! WAH WAH WAH!"
Public schools were made in order for the Govt. to educate there citizens in order to be able to read and write and babysit, and is funded by the federal Govt.
Wow I wasn't aware that one of the objectives of the public education system was to turn out stellar babysitters, lol.
But as Govt. grows and money is short due to corporate wellfare and the payment of millions of dollers every year to every tom dick and harry who served in govt as an elected stooge. The feds renage on there promise to fund education.
The gov't doesn't go short on money because of "corporate welfare" it goes short because it is an inefficient, overbloated bureaucracy.
Ok i pay 10k a year property taxs and lets say i have 4 kids in diffrent levels of education do you really think that 10k will cover all of my kids education? If i had to send them to private school it would cost me around 100k a year or better for all 4 kids.
Yes, if you had to send your kids to school right now in the current situation, you couldn't afford it. Let me repeat again (if text could go verrrry slowwwwwwly I would type it that way): SUPPLY AND DEMAND WILL LOWER THE PRICE OF PRIVATE EDUCATION WHEN PUBLIC EDUCATION IS ELIMINATED. Further, the fact that you are even ALLOWED to have 4 kids shows a serious flaw in our freedom to reproduce laws. (that was a joke... sort of)
You have your local Govt. State Govt. and your Federal Govt . and each keeps one another in check.
You should really go back and re-learn about checks and balances...
the Goverments want you to feel guilty by them helping you like Kennedy said Dont ask your Govt. just give to them....
The whole point of that Kennedy quote wasn't, "Be a government slave," the point was, "Get off your lazy ass and stop asking for handouts." Apparently, you didn't quite get the message.
If you privatise education to make it cheeper who will teach our kids?? you? Why would a teacher wast 30 to 40 years teaching your spawns why for low pay and no job protection, where they got to pay for there own healthcare and pensions wold be a roll of the dice in the st
November 1, 2007 - 5:38am
#24
Quote:
Originally posted by: DieselCrazy
Quote:
Originally posted by: Tom Yaz
DC,
Your perception of reality is amusing to say the least!
I hope you dont ever get mad here and run away, as you are certainly are a "treausure" here at greasecar.com. Hat tip to you brotha!
-------------------------
Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
Tyhank you Tom your kind words are appreciated.
Bush wants to privatise healthcar SS education ect. Will he lead the way by giving up his pension and his health care and prtection that the federal govt will ahve to pay him. is he going to give up his pension from texas. Will his wife give up her pension and pay for there daughters health care. Or will they expect the woking families who are educated and are trying to better themselves and there children be the only one effected by his proposals.
When bush and his entire family give up federal healthcare and there pensions and pay for there families healthcare then i will listen to the BS.
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Your welcome,
But to be honest, it was a bit of a backhanded compliment.
I think you could be the poster child for wacked out lefty thinking, And I'm glad you stick around for us to give you your lumps! Remember its all in good fun; I try not to get too viscous. I would be happy to share a brewski (sorry but no bongs) if you were ever in my hood.
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Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
November 1, 2007 - 9:37am
#25
Bring your wallet Tom, you'll probably have to buy!
November 1, 2007 - 10:16am
#26
Quote:
Originally posted by: 81SD
Bring your wallet Tom, you'll probably have to buy!
LOL! I was thinking the same thing! But thats ok
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Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
November 1, 2007 - 10:59am
#27
Tom you are an intelegent person but misguided on your union stand. If it were not for Unions we would not have a 8 hr. work day a required 2 day rest per week . We would still have impoverished people the like you see in third world countries as was the case before unions in this country. Child labor laws would not exist over time pay would not exist. Maybe your a self made man and have no need for unions but their are those of us who do belong and are proud of it. Are all unions bad no. are they all good no . I have seen the good and bad within the one I belong to and there is coruption in some . How abuot the coruption at Companies like Enron they literly destroyed thousands of workers pensions as well as livelyhood. I'd rather have to go through a hearing in the company Kangaroo court then be handed a shoe box and told to clean out your desk your fired with no hope of getting your job back. On another note your prices are way to high lower them and you might do better
November 1, 2007 - 10:40am
#28
1 to 5 yo write better then me, it seems that you 5 y/o mentality is has done nothing for ur ability to ramble BS.
Why should an employer provide healthcare? Isnt it true that the big corporations biggest complaint is paying for health care? The FEDERAL GOVT. is not an employer we the citizens employ other citizens to provide services for US. If members of our elected congress provides for themslves the best healthcare at the tax payers expense then the same healthcare should be provided for all citizens of the land. Bush is not superior if he wants me to pay for my healthcare then he should do the same.... He and his family has been riding federal and local govts for years i would say they like a free ride and are the biggest wellfare recipients...
Your wrong the people want socialized healcare... your just a boob and will folow what ever hanity, levine, and rush spit out at you and make you feel guilty. I listen to them for amusment and they never ever say that they will pay for there own healthcare or that elected officials should not get a pension or any healthcare. But get a salery for the time they are in office.
Wallgreens is not a federally funded Govt. by its tax payers... I dont shop at the my Govt. I pay into my Governments....
Yes over bloated beurocracy why? Because of all the pensions we pay to multi millionairs who are in office. After a 2 year stint as a senator you get a pension and life time healthcare.... and who knows what else. The majority of the tax doller we must give to Governments are not spent on the tax payers but to fund Private Corporate buisness...
What happens when a buisness has lots of competion it cuts expenses and where does it cut from the most labor....
If a learning center was competing with 3 other centers saleries would be 7.00 and i bet you would have one certified teachers and the other technicians working under on certification... Look how much it cost to go to college!
Why should i pay and help my Govt. when the Govt. is suppose to do for me thats why we have one. It is suppose to provide quality of life and people are lazy and peole are hard workers and some peole are smarter then others and we all need protection because we are a nation of Christians and Religious peoples and believe in democracy. So we are here to help each other. Like I said if you dont believe that then you should join a nazi or communist party or move to china...
Wrong. Unions artificially attempt to raise wages above their true market value which does three things:
1) Raise unemployment.
2) Send jobs overseas.
3) Slows the overall development of infrastructure and progress of a country. Look up your history: you'll see that the greatest progress was made BEFORE unions began to form. Unions killed the steel industry, unions are killing the U.S. automotive industry. This is partly why unions are so incredibly dumb: they basically ensure their professions eventual demise.
Teachers unions also make sure that all the crappy teachers keep their jobs, which (A) makes it harder for good teachers to find jobs, and (B) gives your kids a crappy education (although if they take after you, DC, I'm afraid an education will do them little or no good).
I guess you forgot the working enviorments people were in before workers organized a formed unions.
YOU really believe that union is why Steele mills close down? Not because a manufacturer can buy it cheeper in china like GM Toyota. Maybe you should go to china and ask how much CEO's make and what there benefits are. Or goto to other countries and ask what an oil executive makes....
there are good techers and there are bad teachers like any other industry. What abut cops they have the same bennies as teachers they have job security and there are good cops and bad. The federal Govt. is union ized why cant a group of workers bargain there employer this is a free country remember... From what you have said so far your education did nothing for you but make you a mad as hell guy who wants to feel better then others....
the
November 1, 2007 - 11:46am
#29
Quote:
Originally posted by: dcwier1
Tom you are an intelegent person but misguided on your union stand. If it were not for Unions we would not have a 8 hr. work day a required 2 day rest per week . We would still have impoverished people the like you see in third world countries as was the case before unions in this country. Child labor laws would not exist over time pay would not exist. Maybe your a self made man and have no need for unions but their are those of us who do belong and are proud of it. Are all unions bad no. are they all good no . I have seen the good and bad within the one I belong to and there is coruption in some . How abuot the coruption at Companies like Enron they literly destroyed thousands of workers pensions as well as livelyhood. I'd rather have to go through a hearing in the company Kangaroo court then be handed a shoe box and told to clean out your desk your fired with no hope of getting your job back. On another note your prices are way to high lower them and you might do better
Huh?
I havent said a word about unions in this thread. Are you talking about THESST?...
What items do you think I am pricing "too high"? I know I am not the cheapest in some items, but I know I am very competitve in others....
What makes you think I am could do better anyway?
I might be rolling in the $$$ for all you know..
-------------------------
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November 1, 2007 - 1:30pm
#30
So sorry Tom my mistake . I guess I need to check the author more closlly. But it does remind me of some of the things that have been said in the past. I hope you are raking in the money. That's what the free enterprise system is all about . Your prices on barrel filters was about 20.00 higher then anywhere else. But if your happy with your profit margin so be it.
November 1, 2007 - 1:39pm
#31
No prob,
Yep Barrell filters are not my best priced item; not becasue of
a high markup but because of my cost. I just may drop them in $ to move some out..you know, sell at a loss but make it up in volume ;)
-------------------------
Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
November 1, 2007 - 2:04pm
#32
Quote:
Originally posted by: dcwier1
Tom you are an intelegent person but misguided on your union stand. If it were not for Unions we would not have a 8 hr. work day a required 2 day rest per week . We would still have impoverished people the like you see in third world countries as was the case before unions in this country. Child labor laws would not exist over time pay would not exist. Maybe your a self made man and have no need for unions but their are those of us who do belong and are proud of it. Are all unions bad no. are they all good no . I have seen the good and bad within the one I belong to and there is coruption in some . How abuot the coruption at Companies like Enron they literly destroyed thousands of workers pensions as well as livelyhood. I'd rather have to go through a hearing in the company Kangaroo court then be handed a shoe box and told to clean out your desk your fired with no hope of getting your job back. On another note your prices are way to high lower them and you might do better
dcwier1 is correct.
The 1890's was the period in U.S. history was the broadest middle class.
The industrial leaders, with the help of some banks, eliminated "craftsman" as a part of American life, by mass producing goods. Until then the craftsmen were paid fairly for their work.
In short order, the jobs became centralized into large superfactories where workers who once enjoyed family friendly flexable hours now worked 60 hours a week for less money than their craftsman positions paid.
The unions took 3 decades to balance power between the factory owners and labor. The first strikes were formed to create a more safe work environment and to stablize work hours to reduce layoffs.
It was bloody, but reistablished the middleclass in the U.S. by the late 1940's.
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02 TDI GC 2 tank 54000 trouble free miles
79 300D Fattywagon 1 tanker (we'll see how this one works out!)
Zero to 60 in 37.6 seconds. Go ahead, drool away.
November 1, 2007 - 2:16pm
#33
This is true, but then the unions evolved into just another layer of management between the workers and the shareholders. Instead of the union investing in the company over time and establishing ownership, the union management usually just sets themselves up with some nice paychecks. If they REALLY wanted to look out for the worker's best interests, they'd put their money in the company stock and over time own the place.
November 1, 2007 - 2:52pm
#34
Quote:
Originally posted by: 81SD
This is true, but then the unions evolved into just another layer of management between the workers and the shareholders. Instead of the union investing in the company over time and establishing ownership, the union management usually just sets themselves up with some nice paychecks. If they REALLY wanted to look out for the worker's best interests, they'd put their money in the company stock and over time own the place.
My Union invested in my company.
You could say the same about Bush insisting like a baby to invade Iraq to fix there politcal system and install a united States vision of democracy.
Walmart is w/o a union and its workers are all on public assistance and its state funded, because like people in the military they need food stamps to eat and depend of Govt. healthcare.
Walmart is the biggest company in the country they sell more goods then anybody. Each walmart family member is worth well over 3 billion each.
I call that money hoarding and not sharing the wealth thats why we need unions and govt to keep co. like walmart in check.
Unfortunatly walmart is so powerfull in lobbying that they set and lay down the law. Why dont the walmart stores want union Costco is a union shop and they make upto 21.00 an hour and have job security.
Every time you see a union sticker and a union worker thank that guy for being a union supporter.
Everybody should support unions. What other protections do workers have?
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November 1, 2007 - 8:22pm
#35
ditto DC
November 1, 2007 - 8:42pm
#36
Skill and ability? Knowledge and reason? I guess you union guys don't have those features available to you and must rely on blackmail -er - I mean collective bargaining. I'll pick an honest laborer over a union member every time.
November 1, 2007 - 8:57pm
#37
What are some reasons that some wouldn't vote for Ron Paul (R) from Texas?
-------------------------
"The world will not evolve past its current state of crisis by using the same thinking that created the situation." - A. Einstein
November 1, 2007 - 8:56pm
#38
Quote:
Originally posted by: 81SD
Skill and ability? Knowledge and reason? I guess you union guys don't have those features available to you and must rely on blackmail -er - I mean collective bargaining. I'll pick an honest laborer over a union member every time.
81 what you dont understand is that anybody can do anything even program. What do you RPG, C+, JAVA, Front page lol, what can you possible program today that my kid can probably do today with a GUI Hell I use Dream Weaver, CS3 and its pretty simple even html is not so hard.
Once you get the theory and the statements your ok.
So what is it that you do that is so criticle in programming isnt YAZZ a programmer. You two guys are a little bit to close...
theres dead weight every where even in the white house. The Federal Govt. is a union job.
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November 1, 2007 - 9:07pm
#39
Quote:
Originally posted by: socalgrease
What are some reasons that some wouldn't vote for Ron Paul (R) from Texas?
-------------------------
"The world will not evolve past its current state of crisis by using the same thinking that created the situation." - A. Einstein
'Crazy - I make my company money. They can leverage what I do to bring in some serious coin.
As to Ron Paul - he was on Leno a couple of days ago. He made for a great interview - I can see why you find his ideas so appealing. The first thing you'd have to do if he was elected would be to throw out most of our current Congress. You think Pelosi would let any of his radical ideas through? He would be bitterly opposed by all of the Democratic leadership. He'd have a tough enough job trying to gather support from his Republican peers - many of them would have to be booted to make way for fresh faces, but it would be a mess with the radical Liberal Democrats in power.
The last Congressional election was a mistake - the approval rating for Congress is about 1/2 of what GWB has. With a new President, hopefully we can boot out as many old faces from Congress and get more independents in place. I'd like someone like Ron Paul to win - but I'd want Congress to be full of like-minded people so the opportunity isn't wasted.
November 1, 2007 - 9:05pm
#40
"what can you possible program today that my kid can probably do"
If programming is such an easy job that a 2-year old can do, why does it pay so well? I mean, shoudlnt we programmers make what a hamburger flipper makes?
Tools I use: SQL Server, VB.NET, iseries operations. JDE Edwards World/One World, SEQUEL,CreateForm,RPG/ILE
DB2/400, Loftware,NuTech,DSI,Cobol..Write programs and
support all facets of a 250 milion mfg company--A/R, A/P, accounting, manufacturing,inventory control, purchasing, shipping etc...
We just laid off two programmers...I'm still around probably becasue I kept up my skill set..And yes we are doing the work
with two less people, a 25-30% reduction in programming staff..
Requires analytical and logical thinking abilities. DC, are probably not cut out for thisline of work.
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Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
November 2, 2007 - 9:39am
#41
Quote:
Originally posted by: 81SD
Quote:
Originally posted by: socalgrease
What are some reasons that some wouldn't vote for Ron Paul (R) from Texas?
-------------------------
"The world will not evolve past its current state of crisis by using the same thinking that created the situation." - A. Einstein
'Crazy - I make my company money. They can leverage what I do to bring in some serious coin.
As to Ron Paul - he was on Leno a couple of days ago. He made for a great interview - I can see why you find his ideas so appealing. The first thing you'd have to do if he was elected would be to throw out most of our current Congress. You think Pelosi would let any of his radical ideas through? He would be bitterly opposed by all of the Democratic leadership. He'd have a tough enough job trying to gather support from his Republican peers - many of them would have to be booted to make way for fresh faces, but it would be a mess with the radical Liberal Democrats in power.
The last Congressional election was a mistake - the approval rating for Congress is about 1/2 of what GWB has. With a new President, hopefully we can boot out as many old faces from Congress and get more independents in place. I'd like someone like Ron Paul to win - but I'd want Congress to be full of like-minded people so the opportunity isn't wasted.
81 I think we are on the same page on this one. Ron Paul is a good chooise even the left side is saying hes a good pick...
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November 2, 2007 - 12:52pm
#42
Libertarians like Ron Paul are often liked a great deal until they are asked the hard questions.
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02 TDI GC 2 tank 54000 trouble free miles
79 300D Fattywagon 1 tanker (we'll see how this one works out!)
Zero to 60 in 37.6 seconds. Go ahead, drool away.
November 2, 2007 - 1:22pm
#43
Quote:
Originally posted by: Henry David Thoreau
Libertarians like Ron Paul are often liked a great deal until they are asked the hard questions.
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02 TDI GC 2 tank 54000 trouble free miles
79 300D Fattywagon 1 tanker (we'll see how this one works out!)
Zero to 60 in 37.6 seconds. Go ahead, drool away.
Like what? He handled himself quite well with Leno - granted, that was a pretty friendly interview. Most Libertarians can answer the hard questions with some pretty harsh answers. They tend to be not what either Democrats or Republicans want to hear - but much more in line with the original founders of this country.
November 2, 2007 - 1:39pm
#44
I dont like Ron Pauls stance on terrorism-which is blame America first, turn tail and run...so I wont vote for him
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Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
November 2, 2007 - 1:59pm
#45
Quote:
Originally posted by: Tom Yaz
I dont like Ron Pauls stance on terrorism-which is blame America first, turn tail and run...so I wont vote for him
-------------------------
Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
who do u like Tom?
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November 2, 2007 - 2:14pm
#46
Quote:
Originally posted by: DieselCrazy
Quote:
Originally posted by: Tom Yaz
I dont like Ron Pauls stance on terrorism-which is blame America first, turn tail and run...so I wont vote for him
-------------------------
Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
who do u like Tom?
-------------------------
Is Hannity running!?
-------------------------
Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
November 2, 2007 - 3:35pm
#47
Quote:
Originally posted by: Tom Yaz
Quote:
Originally posted by: DieselCrazy
Quote:
Originally posted by: Tom Yaz
I dont like Ron Pauls stance on terrorism-which is blame America first, turn tail and run...so I wont vote for him
-------------------------
Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
who do u like Tom?
-------------------------
Is Hannity running!?
-------------------------
Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.
Thats Ron Paul being interviewed by hanitty and hanity said polls his dont mean anything...
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November 2, 2007 - 7:57pm
#48
Steven Colbert. A real American.
November 2, 2007 - 8:09pm
#49
Maybe Peru would loan us their president, Hugo Chavez.
-------------------------
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com
2003 Golf, 2004 Jetta Wagon w/ standard Greasecar kits.
Installed Spring 2006
November 2, 2007 - 8:17pm
#50
How about Donald Trump?
-------------------------
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"Assertions should be supported by something other than because I think so"
Well I guess that rules out DC!
Actually I have no idea. The politicans can blather all day, but at the end of the day there will be no change from any of them.
Why? Simply becasue I do not think that we are in a "crisis" stage with oil. There are no shortages, I can buy all the gas I want. And thats the same with everyone. Expensive? Yes, but where are nowhere near crisis YET.
what I would like a politician to DO rather than SAY?
1. More Nuke plants (the TVA applied for a couple permits today, first time since TMI)
2.More coal to diesel. We have plenty of coal to use.
3.More drilling for oil. open up ANWAR. Drill off the coast of FLA.
4. Ban any imported oil from the ME. but need to see step 5 too.
5.This is radical: Have US negotiate contracts with non-ME countries to buy imported oil at set price. Resell to oil refiners at a cost. This will insulate against price fluctuations. As a beleiver in freedom, I would not co-erce refiners to buy this oil, but rather provide a hopefully lower cost, more stable source of oil as a alternative to the commodities market. Farmers often enter into such agreements with buyers of their crops. Oil is just another commodity like grain.
-------------------------
Whatever "Green" means to you, GreenRoadSupply.com helps you make it so.