....Any problems running TDI's on WVO?
April 27, 2006 - 5:50am
I'm SURE this topic has been beaten to death here,but I'm going to ask how things are going *currently* with the TDI people? I'm going to do the conversion on my '97 Passat TDI this week.
I hang out over at the TDI Club Forums quite a bit,and the general consensus over there about using WVO is doom,and gloom.WVO in Pump Duese models seems to be a sure death sentence.
Any I.P. problems on the VE pump cars?????
April 27, 2006 - 3:58pm
#2
...My Beetle is going to be fitted with .205's this week.If I like them,the Passat will be next.
What kind of fuel mileage do you get with that 11mm pump,chip,and the .205's?
That car must be crazy fast....
How many miles have you driven on WVO so far?
April 27, 2006 - 5:55pm
#3
I've got a little over 20k on grease since last September. No problems so far. I'll reiterate, good and hot oil is the trick (as well as well-filtered and dewatered).
-------------------------
2001 VW Golf TDI
GreasedGolf
Converted 9/1/05 @ 46,200 miles with standard Greasecar kit
Added vegtherm 11/1/05
Currently (2/25/06) 15k greasy miles
125 mile per day commuter
April 28, 2006 - 6:29am
#4
60,000 veggie miles on my 2002, runs like brand new.
April 28, 2006 - 8:24am
#5
36,000 miles on grease in just under 2 years. My '03 Jetta runs like brand new. I have no regrets.
-------------------------
Brian
vw.ourwebstop.com
April 28, 2006 - 8:49am
#6
Thanks for the info!
I'm thinking about filtering down to 1 micron to minimize any possibility of pump problems.I'm going to wrap the tank in a hot water heater insulation blanket to keep the oil as warm as possible.I'm also going to look at the possibility of routing the veggie lines inside that car.
Down the road,i might try installing a hot water heater element in the tank for perheating so I can drive staight away with grease in the wintertime.(It drops to below zero around here in the winter) Hope I never foget to unplug it!
April 28, 2006 - 9:39am
#7
All good ideas, but probably not all neccesary. The VW filter is only 10 microns. Insulation always helps, but even with a hot tank you can't switch till the engine is warmed up. But in very cold weather, you can switch a bit sooner.
I've been up to Vermont many times (often 20 or 30 below) and everything worked fine. It did take a lot longer till I could switch.
Randall Weber (has a profile in the upper corner of this website) ran the lines inside his car. It also protects them from road damage.
April 28, 2006 - 11:13pm
#8
Quartersaw,
Insulating the tank is OK. My recommendation is to concentrate more on the VO filter than the tank. It will take a lot of heat to heat up the whole tank. The VO filter will heat up much more quickly if you pay attention it it. Insulate the coolant hose that goes from the heater core to your VO filter. By insulating that (with pipe-insulation) and wrapping the VO filter with some neoprene that I had lying around, I gained 20 degrees in the VO filter.
As for preheating, I would be *very* careful putting a water heater element into your fuel tank! If you're tank is low and that element touches the air, it will definitely start a fire. Take a look at the TDIHeater -- it's what I use, and it heats the engine by circulating the hot coolant through it. I can switch to VO in about 5 blocks -- even when it's very cold out -- when I've preheated with the TDIHeater. Highly recommended.
-------------------------
Brian
vw.ourwebstop.com
April 29, 2006 - 8:54pm
#9
I have around 70K veg miles on 96 Passat wagon, 270K total.
engine/pump all original. Just did Tbelt/h20 pump and cleaned intake (although was not too dirty). She has been happy on veg and has always runs great, I even tow a 900 lb trailer at 75 mph with a roof box on the car! The car is driven hard, but cared for. The only problem I am having is a glowplug issue - Some times when warm out the glow plugs do not come on. I replaced the temp sensor and swapped out the glow plug computer from another car - problem persists(?)
-------------------------
MarkP
April 30, 2006 - 10:04am
#10
Thanks for all of the great feedback!
Mark,
The TDI glowplug system does not work at all when the air temp goes above 40 degrees. If your 'check engine' light is not in,you shouldn't have any problem at all with the glow plugs.it is possible to reprogram the glow plugs to come on at higher temps,but if your engine is in good condition,it's not necessary..
I have New Beetle TDI,and it has a cold problem starting in the mornings.If I can't find out what is causing it soon,I'm going to crank up the glow plug circuit in Vag-Com...
April 30, 2006 - 5:25pm
#11
Only 7,000 greasy miles so far but zero troubles and the engine loves that hot liquid gold!!! Heat well, filter well, and drive it like you stole it!!!
-------------------------
One man gathers what another man spills.
03 VW Golf: TDIheater, Greasecar kit and Vegtherm
April 30, 2006 - 5:56pm
#12
Quartersaw,
Thats interesting. I thought the glowplugs came on over 40F, but for a very short duration. Yes my check engine light is on (and has been for a long time) My car is harder to start in the spring then it is in the middle of winter! I need to break down and buy a simple code reader, my Digimoto OBD software has been a pain in ass.
-------------------------
MarkP
April 30, 2006 - 6:35pm
#13
Quote:
Originally posted by: quartersaw
...My Beetle is going to be fitted with .205's this week.If I like them,the Passat will be next.
What kind of fuel mileage do you get with that 11mm pump,chip,and the .205's?
That car must be crazy fast....
How many miles have you driven on WVO so far?
About 9000 miles so far, mileage stays the same at cruising speed, standing on it will return somewhat lower but not a hole lot of difference.
put it this way, you will LOVE the .205's they wake the car up really nice.
Ya the chip, injectors and pump really give the ricers a hard time.
i've done 16.08@85.04 on the 1/4 with my old chip running on diesel.
first gear is just about useless and the tires have a hard time keeping grip in second and that's with 215/60/15 tires.
it's fun, but it's never enough ;)
-------------------------
2001 tdi .205's, 11mm pump, Unitronic stage 2+, G60/vr6 clutch, bilstein tc's, steel skid plate etc.
dyno soon to come
May 1, 2006 - 5:10am
#14
Hard starting could very well be a timing issue.IIf your timing is seriously out of whack,that can throw a 'check engine' code.Is your fuel economy low?You should be getting at least in the high 40's on the highway.You could also have an EGR,or a clogged intake manifold problem.
My New Beetle starts very hard,and I believe that it is because the cam/crank timing. is slightly off.I bought a cam locking plate and I am going to verify/change the timing this week...
May 3, 2006 - 7:09pm
#15
Add a coolant "block" heater. Plug in for 30min before heading out and you can switch right over...
May 3, 2006 - 7:12pm
#16
you can check the timing very easy with a vag com. it will tell you far more accuratly then looking at the timing marks ever would.
-------------------------
01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Running on Veg since summer 04 still learning new tricks.
11mm IP + lift pump = POWER
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html
May 4, 2006 - 4:47am
#17
My timing in Vag-Com looks O.K. (It's around 60 in the 'TDI Timing' graph) The P.O. installed the timing belt himself.I don't believe that he had the right tools because there are paint marks at several points on the belt pulleys..The car starts VERY hard in the morning(more than 10 sec. to get it to turn over).I have eliminated a whole shopping list of possibilities,and I suspect that there is a small error in the cam/crank timing that would not show up in Vag-Com.
I just got the cam lock tool the other day,so I hope that when I check/reset the timing,this will eliminate the problem once and for all.
I don't believe that it is a compression problem as the car goes like gangbusters(I recently installed .205 injector nozzles) The fuel mileage is crappy too.I've been getting under 40MPG since I've owned the car.....:0(
May 10, 2006 - 5:33am
#18
Quote:
Originally posted by: GETFRYD
I've got a little over 20k on grease since last September. No problems so far. I'll reiterate, good and hot oil is the trick (as well as well-filtered and dewatered).
How do you determine that the oil is really hot enough? Did you install a temp. gauge?
May 21, 2006 - 6:25am
#19
Running on grease since July, 2005 with no problems. Just changed my filter after 12,000 or so miles. I also filter to 5 micron.
-------------------------
GoodOilOnline.com
Conversion shop in Louisville, Kentucky
2003 Jetta wagon
May 21, 2006 - 7:33pm
#20
Quote:
Originally posted by: Thad
Add a coolant "block" heater. Plug in for 30min before heading out and you can switch right over...
Thad,
I live on LI, NY and for me a half hour would not be enough. I have a 1000W zerostart installed and it takes me about 3 hours of preheating for it to be warm up to the 2nd tick mark when I start it up. Personally I was wondering if that was inordinately long. I have a feeling that the guy that installed it wrong the first time kindof burned it up a bit and now I only get the leftovers of the zerostarts useful lifespan.
Sorry to rehijack the thread so I will say that I have almost 13000 miles on a 2002 TDI Jetta with no untoward effects so far. My filter lifespan has been increasing since I have refined my filtration somewhat. The current one is right around 5K miles and still going.
I now go to 5 microns through a sock filter then 1 micron through a GE smart water filter. The 1 micron is after a heating/settling of the stuff that passed the 5 micron. Im still working on improvements to the whole filtration cycle and just purchased an industrial Bag filter housing and a drum heater to improve my continuity in the heating step and final filtering. Up till now I have just used an immersion bucket heater stuck in the drum.
Hope this helps.
Lee
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
May 24, 2006 - 1:25pm
#21
'98 Jetta.
150K. Just went on the grease a thousand miles ago.
No problems.
GreaseCar kit heavily modified. Aluminum fuel lines. HIH return to the tank. Frybrid HE. Oil temp guage. Purge alarm. I've got 195 degree oil temps in 10 minutes of driving.
Slight power loss on grease. But I think it has more to do with the fact that my modified air intake is drawing air from right next to the 200 degree heat exchanger. Insulating the HE should help keep the heat out of the intake and bring the power back.
But yes, the TDIs do fine on good, clean, dry grease.
May 30, 2006 - 7:32am
#22
click on TDI heaters- these things are awesome. Heat up the entire engine compartment from starting 70 temp to ~150 in about 30-60min.
Very hot and very functional. The car starts and reads 190 at the coolant sender.
May 30, 2006 - 7:39am
#23
hmm, sorry, I just saw that you posted you have already have this block heater... maybe installed incorrectly... or maybe where you live is too cold for the block heater to keep up?
My housemates car gets too hot to touch in 30min.
June 5, 2006 - 1:06pm
#24
15k in a year. on my '03 Golf. Runs like a champ unless me or the wifey forget to purge before we shut down. (not good)
-------------------------
mycarsavegan
'03 Golf TDI since June '05
Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace. ---Albert Schweitzer
June 7, 2006 - 8:46pm
#25
98 TDI Jetta
250+k plus miles
25k on grease and running fine. Make sure you insulate everything you can, and you might want to pick up a veg-therm to heat up the grease faster.
-------------------------
Installed grease car kit, veg-therm on a 98 Jetta TDI. Works great since march 23, 2005
Add your greasecar info here:
http://www.frappr.com/burningthemidnightgrease
Austin Biodiesel Group
http://austinbiodiesel.proboards78.com/
June 9, 2006 - 10:38am
#26
regarding the temperature of the oil going to the IP. should the oil be at least 150F but not hotter than 200F.
i prefer heating 160F and using injection line heaters but should i put greater emphasis on heating the oil before the IP to keep all the IP parts moving properly?
if not able to heat past 160F how much heat will the vegtherm add?
is there a thermal switch on the vegtherm to not heat past 200F?
evan
-------------------------
Montreal Canada
96 Jetta 1.9TD filter in trunk, HOH, 16 fphe, inj heaters. oil is 150F - 160F before IP , Injection line Heater (175F Return)
(Wife's) 2002 TDi looking to replicate the same setup but always considering new setups by members
June 9, 2006 - 1:14pm
#27
vegtherms are regulated but not very well if your stuck in traffic it will runaway on heating allways install a switch to manualy controll the temp. I have a temp sensor right after the ip this tells me when i have purged diesel through the ip. 160 before ip i have not considered important and greasecar has not considered important. Hot veg to the filter (90+) is important just to not clog filters daily.
-------------------------
01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Running on Veg since summer 04 still learning new tricks.
11mm IP + lift pump = POWER
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html
June 3, 2008 - 10:40am
#28
As others have said, deatering, good filtration, hot SVO, and switching over when the engine is at operating temperature and NOT A MOMENT SOONER are the key ingredients to long TDI life on WVO. My research on the SVO section of the biodiesel infopop forum suggests that IPs crapping out on WVO isn't the only problem - the bigger problem is that when SVO is burned in an engine that's not hot enough, or when the SVO itself isn't hot enough, the SVO will not completely burn in the combustion chamber. It will coat the inside of the cylinder, polymerize, and "coke" the injectors and the ring lands of the pistons. This damage cannot be repaired. If an IP fails, it can be replaced. An engine replacement is a far bigger job (and far more expensive!).
So to reiterate, please do not switch to SVO unless you know your veggie is hot and your TDI is completely heated up. My research suggests that the TDIheater (www.frostheater.com) is the best option. Also having an FPHE prior to the IP is a good idea as well. Your fuel from your diesel tank is not heated normally. When you switch, no matter how hot your SVO, it will hit the IP and initially cool down. The IP is like a big heat sink until it's as hot as the SVO. Injector line heaters are also a good idea.
-------------------------
99 Beetle TDI w/ Greasecar Kit
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so far so good, make sure your oil is nice and hot before switching.
I know my pump will eventually die but by that time i'll have saved enough money to buy another one.
-------------------------
2001 tdi .205's, 11mm pump, Unitronic stage 2+, G60/vr6 clutch, bilstein tc's, steel skid plate etc.
dyno soon to come