Glow plug question
October 25, 2005 - 9:39pm
.....I removed the glow plugs from my still not on the road '92 VW ECOdiesel because the car was virtually impossible to start. They all test as 'open' on my multi tester. I also tried directly connecting them individually to the battery to be certain they were faulty and sure enough,there was no temperture increase whatsoever when voltage was applied. I hooked the multi tester up to the hot wire for the glow plug harness and there was 12+volts for about 11 seconds before it cut out. I assume that this is a normal duration for glow plug operation.My question is why would all of the plugs be faulty when the glow plug relay seems to be working correctly?
I'm off to the parts store to buy a new set of Bosch glow plugs.The old plugs were Autolights.I hope to have them installed tomorrow.I just wanted to get some advice about possible causes of all of the glow plugs burning out before I go through the trouble of installing the new ones.
This car also has a problem with the coolant fan running full time. Is the sensors in this system connected in any way to the operation of the glow plugs? (I have the fans disconnected until I get the 'beltless' alternator fixed)
October 26, 2005 - 6:09am
#2
The voltage was consistent across the bridge. Yes,this is the car with the coolant light that has a mind of it's own.It looks like somebody replaced the cooling fans because the unit looks new.The fans turn on the minute that you turn the key.
The car has other issues like a leaky hose,and the alternator belt does not want to stay put.After I got the car home,the ignition stopped working and I now have to hotwire the car at the starter to get the engine to turn over.I pulled the plug out of the ignition switch and tried to hotwire it via the connector.Nada.Does anyone know if there is a relay,or fuse in the ignition system?
I've got a bit of work to do before the car is roar worthy and ready for the 'grease job'....
October 26, 2005 - 4:11pm
#3
I finally installed the new Bosch glow plugs today (a nearly impossible job without removing the injectors) and the car started right up on the first try.It threw quite a bit of white smoke for a few minutes,but then it cleared up.The car has been sitting for several weeks and the engine has been cranked over and over without success in starting it.I expect it to be much less smokey when I start it up tomorrow .
I have to figure out why the car is throwing fan belts next...
October 27, 2005 - 6:38am
#4
This car had a fuel leak also right? Has that been fully aleviated yet? I would work on fixing the problems with the belts first. Is the alternator on the timing belt? It would nto surprize me if someone before you replaced the fans thinking that would fix the problem the problem is more in depth then just fans tho for some reason the car thinks its much hotter then it is. The problem with those fans can accually effect a lot of the car's performance there are a few things the car does differently when it thinks its hot compaired to when its cold.
If you have decided to make this a project car and work on it the order of stuff to get fixed if it was mine anyway would be. Belts and why they are loose or not working right, Fans why do they stay on is there a bad coolant sensor?, then finally why is the engine running rough after startup. The engine performance might get better once the problem with ever running fans is fixed after all diesel's don't like to be cold they rely on heat generated by combustion to stay running.
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01 vw jetta TDI
Vag-Com tool at home
RC stage 2 ECU (loveing it)
VR6 clutch / single mass flywheel.
Running on Veg sence summer 04 still learning new tricks
House and property protected by expert marksmen.
October 27, 2005 - 6:43am
#5
I own a 91 ecodiesel and just changed my plugs yesterday; it makes a world of difference. I also had problems with my alternator belt. I had a bad voltage regulator witch was causing my alternator to turn harder than it should, which led to the car breaking belts constantly. If you are throwing belts try cleaning all three pulleys with a wire brush, even a little dirt or corrosion will make the belt do weird things. Also see if all three pulleys are in line, the guy that owned the car before me had not replaced the washer on the idler pulley, and I couldn't keep belts on until I replaced it. as far as the fan is concerned try checking the relay, My fan wouldn't turn on due to a bad relay. In general the wiring in a 15-year-old Volkswagens has seen better days, and has been the cause of 90% of my problems.
October 27, 2005 - 12:01pm
#6
The car is going to be an ongoing project.I don't expect to have the conversion finished before the spring.(I'm leaning toward making the veggie conversion from scratch) (any advice is greatly appreciated!!!) I am addressing the jetta's problems in piecemeal fashion time permitting. I would like to make the car driveable before winter sets in. Since I live in a rural area 17 miles from "civilization", the price of fuel is nickel and diming me to death.
(we also got 8" of snow here the other day)
I bought a new ignition switch today since the car will only start by turning the key 'on',and attaching a jumper wire to the battery.
The new switch failed to start the car.
('no returns on electrical parts') :0(
I guess that there is a relay,or perhaps a fuse for the ignition system that has failed.I'm a bit stumped,but I'll have to see if I can pinpoint the problem somehow. (Any suggestions are appreciated!)
I have heard that the V belts were problematic in VW's of this era.
I can see why VW went to a serpentine belt.I was actually thinking of adapting this car to a serpentine belt,but I would need still more advice of the feasability of doing this.The belt tensioner seems to have some play in it.Mybe this is part of the problem? I will have to actually install the belt to see what happens.I have to remove the other V belt for the inop AC and water pump to change the alternator belt. This car looks like it was in a minor front end fender bender sometime during it's life. I wonder if the alignment of the pully system suffered as a result..?
There was quite a bit of coolant on the floor of my barn when I started the car this morning.I'm going to jack it up to see exactly what is going on.I'm starting to suspect that the water pump is going south instead of a hose leaking.
New coolant/fan sensors are on my shopping list as well.
October 27, 2005 - 12:32pm
#7
The car also has a few leaky injector hoses.(including the hose coming from the injector pump to the #4 fuel injector) What type of hose should I install considering the anticipated veggie conversion??
October 31, 2005 - 2:30pm
#8
That dipstick really only stays in due to friction so maybe a new dipstick would solve that. Timing belt change I would suggest to look up someone on tdiclub.com there is bound to be someone around that knows how to do them well and will do it for far less then a shop might charge. But of anything please do not go to a dealership. I had my belt changed at one and they didnt even replace the 20$ water pump thats on the timing belt that everyone i have talked to about tdi's says should be replaced when timing belt is changed.
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01 vw jetta TDI
Vag-Com tool at home
RC stage 2 ECU (loveing it)
VR6 clutch / single mass flywheel.
Running on Veg sence summer 04 still learning new tricks
House and property protected by expert marksmen.
October 31, 2005 - 3:32pm
#9
I do most work myself,but there is a guy around here who knows VW's from the earliest aircooled cars to the very latest TDI's,and VR6's.He ain't cheap,but he is still way cheaper than a dealer.
I had a '97 GTI some years ago and the starter went out while the car was still under warranty.I took it to the dealership.After the work was completed,I was presented with a bill(mistakenly) for $450.00. After they corrected the paperwork,I asked: 'by the way,was that a new,or rebuilt starter'?? It was a rebuild. I can buy one locally for around $79.00.15 minutes to put it in.Tops. A buddy of mine took his 2001 Passat to the dealership for a brake job.(the car only had 29K on the odometer) He was given an estimate of nine hundred twenty-five dollars! That is quite a scam that the dealerships have going. I stay as far away from those people as possible.Dealerships must think that they have a bunch of lawyers working for them with the prices that they charge.
I checked a few more things on the '92 ECOdiesel.The air filter looks original.I mean it looks like it has never been replaced in the 195K miles that this car has been driven.The fuel filter canister is leaky and i daresay the filter itself is probably the same vintage as the air filter.The engine oil filter is covered with grime,so that probably belongs in a museum as well.Maybe this neglect is why the car is so smokey upon startup(??)
I'm a bit stumped about the V-belt situation. I'm thinking of disassembling the entire V-belt apperatus to see if I can make heads or tails of this 'flying belt' issue. I would really like to convert to a serpentine belt with the later model alternator mount.Unfortunately,It bolts up to the block right where my Injector pump is sitting....
October 31, 2005 - 3:55pm
#10
I will check out tdiclub.com.Thanks!
November 1, 2005 - 4:16am
#11
Yep sounds like you have quite a project to work on. On the bright side by the time you are done you should know that care very well and be able to get everything in perfect running order. I don't know if the smoke is related to the lack of maintenance but it definantly did not help. I bet that car would love to drink a bottle of diesel purge (from tdiparts.com another web sight you will love)
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01 vw jetta TDI
Vag-Com tool at home
RC stage 2 ECU (loveing it)
VR6 clutch / single mass flywheel.
Running on Veg sence summer 04 still learning new tricks
House and property protected by expert marksmen.
November 1, 2005 - 6:11am
#12
Thanks! I will check it out. The fuel filter canister is quite rusted,and wet with diesel fuel.It looks like it has 1,000,000,000 miles on it. I'm anxious to change all of the fliters (and do a synthetic oil change) to see if there is a difference in the performance of the vehicle.I'm willing to bet that there will be.
Question: the handle that pulls in-out to the left of the steering wheel on the dashboard (probably not on the latter TDI cars(?) ).....is this some sort of injection pump choke? (I'm still in 'intro to diesel' mode)
I'm going to try to deal with the mysterious V belt problem today since the weather will be sunny...
November 1, 2005 - 5:13pm
#13
Sorry I do not have any idea what that might be its not on my car at all. I can't imagine a diesel with a choke of any type.
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01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Running on Veg since summer 04 still learning new tricks. There is a reason it is in the constitution!
Gun controll is using both hands.
November 2, 2005 - 5:28am
#14
Someone just told me that this lever is on all of the pre TDI VW diesels and it's for cold starts.
I reinstalled the alternator belt and the charging system is now working normally. The belt tensioner is not properly aligned with the rest of the pullys,so the belt is not going to last.The tensioner pully sits out about 3/16" too far (determined with a carpenters straight edge) in relation to the rest of the pullys in the system.The alternator belt gets hot to the touch after just a few minutes of operation.It appears to me that this is a design fault.The pully tensioner is not adjustable in this direction.I have read a fair number of complaints about alternator belts on VW diesels of this era online.Somehow,I have to come up with a tensioner and bracket that will give me the correct alignment.
I mentioned in another post that the radiator fans are running full time.It turns out that they are not.Somebody cobbed the fans into the circuit that controls the defroster fan inside the car and they can be turned off via the slider switch on the dash. I'm going to have to figure out how to reroute this screwup.
I'm going to purchase new filters,and do an oil change this weekend.
I removed the air filter,and started the car cold.(it was the most filthy air filter that i've ever seen) Presto! The billowing clouds of smoke I got on startup (which led me to believe the engine might be toast) have ceased!
November 3, 2005 - 4:25pm
#15
OMG! Please buy a Bentley manual on Ebay. Seriously, $30 or so will save you so much time.
If you really cannot spend the $30 I'll try to help you out and look up stuff in mine.
November 3, 2005 - 6:42pm
#16
Good god I hate when people "improve" a car by modifying how it should normally operate. When something stops working properly there is normally a reason for it. First thing is to check to see if there are any recalls on the car (I use AAA.com as i am a member) I can't believe someone re-wired the cooling fans to work differently.
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01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Running on Veg since summer 04 still learning new tricks. There is a reason it is in the constitution!
Gun controll is using both hands.
November 4, 2005 - 5:16am
#17
Thanks for the offer on sharing the Bentley manual! I found one on E Bay and I'm waiting for it to be delivered.
November 4, 2005 - 5:16am
#18
Thanks for the offer on sharing the Bentley manual! I found one on E Bay and I'm waiting for it to be delivered.
November 4, 2005 - 5:19am
#19
It's pretty stupid,but I think that it should be an easy fix.The hot wire for the fan just needs to be rerouted to a working sensor.
My plans for the Jetta may have changed.I found a '97 Passat TDI for sale locally yesterday for $3250.00.(meticulously maintained-228,000 mi.)I bit the bullet and bought it.My perspective is a bit skewed from prices that i've seen on E Bay,but I think that I still might have gotten a pretty good deal on the car in spite of the high mileage.
November 4, 2005 - 4:49pm
#20
Quarter,is that car a european model,just referencing to the choke handle,I know they used them over there but not in the states,just a helpful hint, Wally
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WWW.WALLYSSUPERSERVICE.COM WALLYSSUPER@AOL.COM
It's all in the knowledge
More tree's,Less Bush
November 4, 2005 - 5:20pm
#21
Interesting.Thanks for the info!
The 'new' '97 Passat TDI smokes like crazy for the first few minutes on startup.It looks like a combination of white,black,and blue smoke.
I cleaned out the little half circle screen beneath the air filter and that made the black smoke go away,and increased the acceleration somewhat.In any case,once the car is warmed up,the exhaust looks clean.
Any thoughts/suggestions??
November 4, 2005 - 6:14pm
#22
Well I have allways been told blue smoke is horrible knews because its a sighn of engine oil being burned. I might be wrong on this but keep an eye on oil level and see if it goes down. White smoke could just be water vapor white smoke is nice and normal on cold days or even semi cold days.
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01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Running on Veg since summer 04 still learning new tricks. There is a reason it is in the constitution!
Gun controll is using both hands.
November 4, 2005 - 7:37pm
#23
I don't see any smoke at all once the car is moderately warmed up.The air filter in this car looks somewhat dirty,so hopefully it's just an air starvation issue.The fuel filter passes the 'beauty contest' test.(It 'looks' relatively new)When I test drove the car the other day,there was no trace of smoke.it looks like the P.O. warmed the engine up just before I arrived for the test drive... :0(
(it was a pretty warm day for november here.it was in the 60's yesterday,and today)
The engine does have more power,and acceleration than I expected out of a diesel four banger.
I'm going to pick up a fuel filter,and air filter and see what happens when i install them..
November 7, 2005 - 2:12pm
#24
A vw tdi will perform just as well or better then a similar gasser 4 cylender if its in good working order. Mine had a blown turbo when i got it so i thought for a long time it was the price i paid owning a diesel. Now i got it chipped and i plan on getting bigger nozzels some day and uping the chip to more performance and put in a cold weather program so i can switch between the 2 and have tons of fun with the car.
-------------------------
01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Running on Veg since summer 04 still learning new tricks. There is a reason it is in the constitution!
Gun controll is using both hands.
November 7, 2005 - 6:45pm
#25
I tested the glow plug system,and there is *no voltage* at the glow plug harness.The glow plugs measure .6 ohm each on my multi tester which leads me to believe that they are all in good working condition.I cannot find the glow plug relay,and I believe that it is missing(!) I am also uncertain where the relay is supposed to sit.I have the '95-'97 Bentley Passat manual and it shows the relay in position #12 on the relay/fuse panel.I called VW today and they tell me that is the Canadian version(The Passat TD,I believe).My relay is supposed to be in position #13.The only problem is that there isn't a 13th slot on the relay panel ! On another forum,someone mentioned that the relay sits in position #10. I have also read that in some cars,the relay is mounted way up inside the dash.My wasn't. I looked.
I'm confused.....
November 14, 2005 - 7:55am
#26
Quartersaw,
Email me (address in profile) if you still need to have this looked up, I haven't been checking the boards a lot.
November 14, 2005 - 2:21pm
#27
I did send you an e mail,but it was bounced back to me.Is your profile up to date,or is there a problem with the mailbox?
Thanks for offering to help me with this problem!
November 15, 2005 - 2:45pm
#28
Sorry, I had an underscore where a period should have been.
I just replaced the air filter intake hose on my 89 Jetta. Rather costly (I was tempted to just duct tape the whole thing) but it is running a lot better now. Tomorrow it goes into the shop for a check up / head bolt tightening after the gasket was replaced. Once I get a $ breather I'll be able to order my kit.
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The glow plugs might have indeed only blown out 1 at a time and just gotten harder and harder to start in the morning and previouse owner ignored the problem blameing cold weather. If the bridge works then it was definantly the glow plugs and not a connection problem. The new glow plugs will help greatly with startup.
As for the fans running full blast all the time try checking for broken wires on the coolant sensors and or replacing said coolant sensors something is telling the ecu that the car coolant is very hot. This is the same car that has the coolant hot light that stays on right?
-------------------------
01 vw jetta TDI
Vag-Com tool at home
RC stage 2 ECU (loveing it)
VR6 clutch / single mass flywheel.
Running on Veg sence summer 04 still learning new tricks
House and property protected by expert marksmen.