Temperature concerns on GC Jetta
September 6, 2006 - 8:17am
Just finished a Greasecar conversion on an '02 Jetta. Since the conversion I've driven about 270 miles. I also got the Greasecar heat probe and gauge, and I have that installed on the fuel line right before the injector pump. I am worried with some of the temparatures it's reporting.
At 75 degrees ambient, it typically takes about 3 to 5 miles or so for the stock engine gauge to get up to 190. At that point the GC temp gauge is still measuring the diesel temperature, which is 75-80 degrees, so it seems the probe is working. If I wait another few miles after that and switch to VO, the gauge starts a slow rise to 90, 100, 110, and after several minutes, maybe 120. I don't know whether the temp sensor is supposed to have a slow reaction time (or an "averager") to smooth out swings, but this doesn't seem right.
Even after 30 miles on the highway, I'm still getting readings around 150.
The above readings are with the basic GC kit, with the coolant lines tee'd so they're in parallel with the cabin heater. I have also installed a Vegtherm, after the VO filter but before the solenoid (so that it never heats the diesel). When I have that on, I can eventually max at higher temps (190) but it still takes a long time (20 miles).
Does anyone else have the GC temperature sensor installed in a similar place on a similar car ('99-'03 Jetta/Golf)? If so, what kinds of temperatures are you getting? Anyone have problems with the gauge itself?
I'm thinking I want to re-route the coolant lines to go in series before or after the cabin heater, rather than in parallel using the tees. I searched the forums and didn't see any concerns (the '02 Jetta sends coolant through the heater core whether or not the heater is on). Anyone have any thoughts?
I would think I've got most of the air out of the coolant lines by now (270 miles), but am open to suggestions for how to make sure.
Thanks,
KCL
September 6, 2006 - 12:16pm
#2
Heh heh,
Bodycounter and I are stalking eachother! ;)
1. Instead of the coolant fluid "T" fittings I just use two elbows now to go in series.
From the back of the TDI ALH 1.9L engine, you'll see the myriad of emission control gadgetry. On the driver's side of all of this you'll notice the HOT coolant line that enters the firewall enroute to the heater core. This is the line that is the *passenger-side one* (so, on your left while looking at the firewall from the front!) of the two coolant lines in the firewall on our '99-'03 TDIs.
From this line, in which the coolant is travelling UP and into the firwall, I scrap the flimsy, GC-included "T" and use a barbed elbow (from any wardware/plumbing supply store) to go directly to the top of the GC filter. The coolant makes its run around the coil, then out the bottom. From there it travles back to the GC tank, through the other coil and then back into the engine bay.
Now from here I use another elbow and place it in the UPPER part of the cut HOT radiator line going into the firewall... wa-la.
You only have to cut one of those coolant lines (not even touching the driver's-side line exiting the firewall, so ALL of the hot coolant fluid is going to the filter and rear-mounted tank for quicker heatup. Don't worry, I live in Maine and even here in the Winter my car's heater works fine after only a few miles. The tank in back does not much act like a radiator for my coolant.
2. Check this one out, called the "Rocki-Mod" after my brilliant friend (and get out your GC install manual and follow along please :) :
A. Place a GP heater (or Vegtherm, or whatever heater you use) pre-GC grease filter but "downstream" of the GC looped return (therefore, between the looped retrun and GC filter input side).
B. Then find an all-metal one way valve and put it in the line between your GC filter's output BEFORE the GC solenoid' "A" NC port.
C. From here, find the GC solenoid "B" NC line (which is the GC looped return line) and connect the other side of the one way valve here.
D. Notice now that when your system is not running veggie, you have a mini loop going from your GC filter to the new one-way valve, to the GC looped return line, to your heater, then back to the GC filter. The NC ports on BOTH solenoids fail to allow any veggie into the solenoids if the system is NOT running veggie (because of the NC / "Normal Closed" status).
E. Now, if you add both a small, switched fuel pump (I use a Facet black plastic from NAPA) and temperatrure gauge within this new loop (like using the small, 1/8" tap in the GC filter head to a gauge in your car!) you can engage this new pump and heater loop while you are running on diesel/biodiesel and it will pre-heat your GC filter in minutes!
So when you see your new gauge come up to 170-ish, which will be reading the GC filter's oil temp, you know that you can engange the GC system and warm oil will immediately be SAFELY available for your IP w/o having to wait like before!!!
AND, as an added bennie, when you flip your GC rocker switch to switch over you can keep both the pump and heater ON as they now will aid the veggie supply line with pressure and heat, NICE for our A4 TDIs!
SWEET, huh!?!?!
The "Rocki-Mod"!
Of NOTE!
If your pump fails and your heater stays on before you switch to grease you'll cook your oil in this new, mini-loop and may melt some attached fuel lines. Done that, so BE CAREFUL! I have yet to figure a way to monitor if the pump is active, but may put an LED in my dash in series with the pump's ground to see if it fails, if it (HOPEFULLY) cuts power flowing to ground so the LED will blink out.
And if you were wondering, no, the oil does not get pushed back into the veggie tank, as long as there is no air in the system. I actually also installed a small petcock in this mini-loop with a small, metal "T", so I may purge little bubbles. Fuel heaters do not like air, especially glow plug-types!
Enjoy, gotta go.
Peace!
ps- and when on the road, carry spare filters and WORK GLOVES to change the hot, c
September 6, 2006 - 12:36pm
#3
Thanks for the tips, bodycounter! Are you tapping into the coolant circuit with Tee's or are you going in series? I wonder how much difference that might make. Just feeling with my hands, the lines into and out of the cabin heater core seem to get hot a lot quicker than the Tee'd-in lines heating up the filter/fuel/tank.
Another idea I've seen often in the forums, Have you tried insulating everything? That seems like it wouldn't make that much difference in my kind of weather, but I might try it.
Which glowplug heater are you using? Would I have the same danger of flaking with the Vegtherm? I hadn't thought about anything coming off the heater element. When you had the second filter after the heater, which did you use?
Again, thanks,
KCL
September 6, 2006 - 1:11pm
#4
Thanks shmcquilkin for the detailed explanation.
I'm going to try changing the coolant circuit to series, as you describe in #1. #2 looks very interesting. I drew a quick diagram of what I think you're saying, and I might be missing something. I might have to study it awhile once I'm a bit more unconfusified.
Tell me if I'm following you right:
If we call the fuel line connecting the Veg filter and NC on solenoid A "VA" and we call the return line connecting NC on solenoid B with the Tee of the looped return "BT," do I put additional Tees in the middle of VA and BT and connect them with a line with the one-way valve (with flow allowed toward BT)?
I would then want to put the new pump between the original looped return Tee and the heater (which is before the Veg filter), correct?
Or have I got the locations wrong?
I may have misunderstood, because it doesn't seem like that pump would offer any help to the IP once we're in veg. mode, because as much as it would put additional pressure toward the intake side, it would also be creating extra pressure on the return/output side (through the B solenoid). If the new pump were wired so that it was off whenever solenoid B was on (ie, in veg mode or during purge), or better yet, if instead of the one-way valve we used another of those fancy GC solenoids...
And the hose-melting problem is where bodycount's temp-controlled GP heater would come in handy.
I'm getting way ahead of myself. One thing at a time for me, I think...
-KCL
September 6, 2006 - 1:52pm
#5
Bingo, you have it down exactly as stated!
I have my pump just before the GC filter so even when engaged to veggie it still pushes both fresh oil from the tank AND the mixed looped return oil into the GC switch "A".
This is the ALL-METAL, ADJUSTABLE OPENNING PRESSURE valve which I use on all of my conversions now:
DELTROL CHECK VALVE (EC20B):
http://valvestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=61061
Woo-hoo!!! :)
So when setting up I adjust to open at a moderate pressure, so as you were concerend with, when engaged to veggie the new pump won't push fuel through the valve again and into the looped line (your "BT" designation), but only right on into the now open NC port of switch "A" ... on to the IP.
So, the pump DOES in fact help the veggie supply system when engaged, as long as it is closer to the GC filter than the looped return "T" bringing line "BT" back into the system before the filter (the "T", BTW, which I replace with metal... as the GC plastic supplied ones S-U-C-K, sadly again).
You CAN, then, just keep the pump running both before switching and after switching to veggie as it will do double duty, one role in each context; no other switching solenoid needed!
I tell ya, my boy Rocki NAILED it with this one! Smart cookie, that one!!
Also, I built my glow-plug heater INTO the entrance of the looped "BT" before the filter, with the pump just towards the filter from there.
Yeah, I have my heaters temp controlled, too, but it's a fine line for me using an external snap-disc HVAC thermostat on the system regarding temps that I want vs. too hot. But yes, this is something that I should have stated: Thermostatically-controlled heaters are MANDATORY to being safe!!!
That being said, though, even if you have a thermostat, if you use a glow-plug-type heater, these babies can jack up to nearly 2000 degrees F in seconds, so even if energy is cut to the plug via a thermostat, maximum line meltitude will be yours regardless... exactly as had happened to me!!
BE CAREFUL, and let's work on some way to tell if the pump is on or not.
Is there a fuel flow meter in existance, which can measure velocity or similar? Just what I need, ANOTHER F-ing gauge (I have eight already...)
AND, if only I could find a small, NPT-threaded snap disc type thermostat that I could bathe withIN the oil instead of having to mount one on the outside of my fittings... which doesn't cost over $100 to be custom-fabricated... anyone, anyone... Bueler...
;)
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI
ASTM-D6751 driven since new
GC automated kit since August, '05
Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock :)
September 6, 2006 - 6:47pm
#6
OOOooo ....... OOOooo..... Mr. Kotta.... Mr. Kotta...... Me... Me..... Pick me........
First I have to say a might wahoo and a whoop d do to Mr. Rocki. He is now officially "DA MAN." This is ingenuous. It fixes a lot of problems with our systems and gives us the benni of a mini lift pump to boot. And another major whoop and a half to shmcquilkin for listing the http for the vvalve which I will be ordering real soon.
Now for my first grade question.... would I still get the flow right in VO or Non VO if I put the facet pump on the output of the GC filter before the check valve? Or would that make the adjusting of the setpressure to close to work right?
I dont have any room to put the little guy in line after the Loop return T before the GC Filter cause I already have my GP Heater installed in what little space is there.
And do i understand this right that in VO mode the fact that the IP is pulling the VO prevents VO from flowing through the check valve to the mini loop, like a path of least resistance?
Like Tony the Tiger says ..... ITS GRRRREEEAAT!!!!!
Lee
(The NightStalker ;))
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
__________________________________________
Regan - 1985? MB 300D, Grey Market - Not greasin yet, barely rinnin in fact
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup
September 6, 2006 - 7:51pm
#7
LOL! Dating ourselves, aren't we, hmmm Horshack!
:o)
I don't think that the pump after the filter's a big deal, but I'd rather it push through the GC filter than pull. Know what I mean?
And you got it, regarding the flow characteristics. I use clear lines throughout and never have seen flow through the check valve when the system was switched to WVO. The tension on the spring in the check valve (adjusted by just spinning the spring holder, which fits in the valve's internal threads, with a small screwdriver... you'll see) is trial and error. From the factory it was too tight and wouldn't allow the oil through it, so I backed it out a couple of turns, blew in it lightly (in the direction of flow) to make sure that the spring was relatively loose (then against flow to make sure the check-ball bearing locked up, and haven't had issue in 8k miles.
Also, I don't see any flow back to the veggie tank either, when the system is "pre-heating" the GC filter. BUT, I REALLY recommend the addition of a small petcock to purge any air within the Rocki-Mod mini loop. If I run quick errands around town for a few days and don't use WVO, sometimes there's some air bubbles in there (which will FRY the glow plug!), which I just purge by turning on the pump (in GC filter "pre-heat" mode, so oil's just cycling around the Rocki-Mod mini loop) and then crack the petcock with a rag over the openning. A second into it all the air is expelled (messy w/o a rag! ;) and I close it back up again.
Also what I did was make my glow plug heater integral with the GC looped-return "T". I use two brass "T's" and barbs (I know, I know... but I haven't have any issues over 20k miles with my brass or oil-exposed copper coils yet) to create the looped-return-into-the-GC-filter's-input-line connection with a 60G glowplug facing into the stream just as the combined oil flows (fresh from GC tank and the post-engine loop return) exit the fittings before entering the GC filter. And it is right into this line that I have my Facet pump (well, one of two anyways :) .
I haven't had time to post this before, but the Rocki-Mod should be mandatory with the kit, I agree. Hope others see this thread...
Peace out Lee,
Scott
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI
ASTM-D6751 driven since new
GC automated kit since August, '05
Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock :)
September 6, 2006 - 9:16pm
#8
OK,
First thing is you ought to rreally write this into a preocedure or something and sell it to GC :) Next, Im going to try the blow into it method for the check valve when it comes. Next, let me see if im still with you regarding the return T's
You put a T to accept the return from the IP and the incoming form the VO tank, then a nipple from that to another T which is the GP heater then another nipple to the facet pump then barb to the GC Filter?
Just typing it kindof crystalized it for me so I think thats what you meant.
OK, here comes 2nd grade..... Is there room for all this? My engine compartment seems too small for all that real estate in one place. I gotta look at this tomorrow.
And doe you have the GP htr aligned so that the tip is pointing up to keep air from pooling at the tip of the GP?
And ... and.... and.....
ihave more questions but they are running around in my tired brain. Too much to absorb..... must recharge batteries...... am feeling run down...... Dave.... don't touch that Dave......
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
__________________________________________
Regan - 1985? MB 300D, Grey Market - Not greasin yet, barely rinnin in fact
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup
September 7, 2006 - 4:41am
#9
"You put a T to accept the return from the IP and the incoming form the VO tank, then a nipple from that to another T which is the GP heater then another nipple to the facet pump then barb to the GC Filter?"
Yes, as you describe; two T's connected with a nipple.
The second T has the fluid entering from the nipple, then the fluid leaving at the 90 degree (or "trunk" of the T), with the GP directly opposite the nipple facing into the stream. I think that the orientation of the tip of the GP is of little concern because, and this is HUGE, THE GP IS NEVER LIT IF THE PUMP IS NOT ACTIVATED! So, there is always flow past it, even if there is air... so if it's pointing up or down seems of no consequence to me. Nice and safe thinking, though.
No, to nipple #2. I have hose running from the second T to the pump - then hose - then another brass T for tiny petcock - then hose to GC filter.
To fit this, and YMMV, but I removed my engine cover as well as some other things (please PM me). There's room in there, you just have to look for it and be creative. It's tight and crammed for sure (and I have a large CCV catch can in their, next to my oil filter, as well as a TDIHeater, too!), but it'll work.
I'd snap a shot, but hardly anyone would recognize anything. I have most of my wires wrapped, most hosing insulated, and my GP heaters thermally shielded to protect other close-proximity components, of which there are many.
My pump rests on top of the bracket holding the black, spherical vacuum reservoir next to injector #4, driver's side.
Just some thoughts:
Some remove their intake filter boxes and replace with a cone cold air intake to make some room.
Others have moved their washer fluid reservoir and replaced it with a smaller, Nalgene-type bottle (Ourwebstop may have pix if I remember).
I do not condone this at all, but in the TDI you can remove much of the emissions control equipment if you know what you're doing and know how to defeat the subsequent engine codes. TDI club has some threadson this.
Take care. Signing off for a few days. Many other things to tend to.
:)
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI
ASTM-D6751 driven since new
GC automated kit since August, '05
Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock :)
September 7, 2006 - 5:41am
#10
And here's some more info about my system:
BTW, the Facets are not restrictive; they flow fine when not activated, and when on they decrease the vacuum ~ 4 inches in my system (as they advertise).
I have removed my stock fuel filter (I have a '03 Jetta TDI).
From the WVO side I have the line coming from the WVO tank in back, then a glowplug heater where the GC looped return enters (see above regarding the T's), then an independently-switchable Facet fuel pump, then the GC filter (with temp sensor) then the Rocki-Mod and GC solenoids.
Both my stock tank and WVO tank's fuels go to a COMMON Stanadyne FM-100, which has another switched Facet pump just before it, then another glowlug heater, then the Standayne filter (with a 6", 2 micron filter).
The fuels go towards the IP, pass through a Dana Linscott Little Angel about 5" away form the IP, then enter the IP.
As you can see... er, read :)... I removed my stock fuel filter because my final filter, the Satandyne (purchased directly through Reliable Industries, the manufacturer, best prices amazingly), cleans either fuel to 2 microns. The beauty of this filter is that it has two input and two output ports, so I use the unused output port to read vacuum restriction with a tiny boost-gauge hose (hard plastic, yet still can make some shallow bends) running from the output port (which is in direct "communication" with the fuel system going to the IP, hence being able to register EXACTLY what inches of vacuum the IP is pulling) to a gauge in my cockpit.
I use a basic VDO Vision-series vacuum gauge, mechanical, and run the boost-type hose form the Standyne along the hood release cable, through my firewall, and then to the gauge, which I have installed on the very bottom of my driver's side A-pillar (WELL below the airbag). See www.42draftdesigns.com for this solution.
So, if I run on my stock tank and the WVO system is not active, my restriction gauge runs in the 8 inch range with the Facet pump nearest the Stanadyne active, as the fuel is only pushed by that one pump to the IP. If the restriction reading starts to climb, the Stanadyne filter is clogging. Remember that my vacuum gauge reading is on a Standyne OUTPUT port, so the filter is in fact BETWEEN the filter and the IP, thereby allowing my to see increased vacuum on the IP when the filter starts clogging.
If I run the WVO system, using BOTH Facet pumps which will both be pushing WVO to the IP in series (when the GC valves are open allowing the WVO flow to the IP) my restriction reads around 2 inches of vacuum. If I see this climb, but the restriction when fueling from my stock tank (so, WVO system OFF) is fine, I know that my WVO filter is clogging.
Cool, huh?
;)
Peace
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI
ASTM-D6751 driven since new
GC automated kit since August, '05
Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock :)
September 7, 2006 - 6:51pm
#11
OK Scott,
I am completely onboard with the Rocki Mod. I have already ordered the pump off ebay (course then I realized after buying that there might be temp limitations on those things so it might be 25$ down the drain, o well) and the variable check valve you posted.
Im hoping to put this mod in around next weekend sometime if the parts all arrive in time.
I am going to wire the facet pump to the gp heater relay so that they operate in tandem. at least for now. Its a lot easier than me trying to work a place for a seperate switch and temp gage. I fiugre this way, my already existing led (from gp htr thermostat) will tell me when the htr (and therefore facet) are on and then when it goes off i know that the oil is hot. The real problem is I have no more room to run any wires from the engine comp to the passenger compartment. the grommet was completely taken up by my installer using what looks like romex to carry the power to the solenoids.
One question to this is do you know how much current draw the facets pull? I have a 30 amp relay powering the htr and dont want to overload it with surge starting current.
I know youre taking time away from the forums, but im just posting this to keep it near the top because like you said before and i agree, THIS MOD SHOULD BE STD ISSUE FOR ANY GC KIT FOR AN A4 TDI. Or at the very least it should be an available luxury upgrade.
I have some other questions about your setup but i will hold them for later.
Good deal and good luck
OOOOOOOOooooooo.... and KCL, just to thank you for hijacking your thread, the filter i used post GP htr was a fram G22A. I gotta give credit to Mr. Brian Miller (He used to be Forrest Gump) for his blog and explanation of a GP htr build. Do a search on his screen name(s) and then check out his blogs. Lost of good info there. That guy has been around the block a few thousand times.
Lee
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
__________________________________________
Regan - 1985? MB 300D, Grey Market - Not greasin yet, barely rinnin in fact
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup
September 7, 2006 - 7:50pm
#12
I'm also sold on the Rocki-Mod. Seems like a great idea, and definitely ought to help with the heat issues. Thanks for posting the details. Takes me a long time to do things under the hood, though, so I'm going to stick with one project at a time.
I guess my temp gauge is more or less trustworthy, then. I was hoping maybe it was underreporting. (I do have an issue with a temp reading drop whenever I turn on the VegTherm heater, which I think is caused by the fact that it and the temp sender are grounded close to each other on the frame, or because it's pulling the supply volatge down a bit, but that only seems responsible for a few degrees).
Do you think I should worry about the Vegtherm flaking like the glowplug heaters can? I'll check out that Fram filter you mentioned.
-KCL
September 8, 2006 - 8:27am
#13
Bodycounter,
Please DO NOT LINK THE GP HEATER TO FACET PUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE realize that fuel HAS to be flowing before the GP heater is turned on and well AFTER the GP heater is turned off, so those super-hot tips won't melt things. Being bathed in moving fuel is the ONLY thing keeping them from melting lines and ruining a lot in there... so BE CAREFUL PLEASE, even WHEN (not IF, but WHEN) thermostatically controlled, those GPs can stay hot for a bit. Has happened a few times to me!
This is also why Rocki and then I installed the petcocks. If a lot air is in the system, the GP tips will overheat and start to melt things also, as air is not a heat conductor like the fuel. I did this once, and only found out by seeing my soldered ground on my GP heater drip, drip, drip... SH!T!!!! Melted the attached lines, too.
Note to self, check Rocki-Mod mini loop often to purge any air. Just engage the pump and crack the petcock; air will come spurting out, and the oil behind it, too! Watch out for the mess.
OF NOTE, you need clear lines to see it there's air in there. You using clear lines yet??? You should be. I use the blue poly from http://www.procycle.us/main/fuel_hose.htm
Jeff H., the owner, is wicked cool; fast shipping, good pricing... and the stuff's heat stable to 230F... yeah it says 220F on the site, but mine has reached 230F before almost failing :)
So, PLEASE independently switch your heaters and pumps, or else you're in for a B!TCH of a time!
As I have no idea if my Facet is actually working, every day on my first start up I open my hood to make sure the it's pumping in the Rocki-Mod mini-loop before powering my GP heater.
HOW CAN WE confirm that the pump is working, ideas please!?!? Even if I have an LED between the pump and its ground, I'm worried that even if the pump fails it'll still send power through the ground, which won't show me SQUAT!
The only way that I can tell if the pump does not work is if I don't see the GC filter head temp coming up as quickly as it normally does... PRETTY SKETCHY way to tell if my system's melting, huh.
I was skeptical about the Facets, but both of mine have been working well for nearly 10k miles. I trust them, for now, but really would like to monitor if they ARE working.
Ideas, please! :)
Peace.
ps- Oh, and my two Facets have seen that 230F and are still going strong, fyi, so WVO temps (<190F) should be of no concern, IMHO.
pps- Not sure about the Facet current draw. I have two GP running through a 40 amp relay w/o issue, and the pumps I have are fused at 10 amps I think (I have so many fuses and crap under my battery cap it's absurd). All hail the A4 alternators, though.... F-ing TROOPERS!
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI
ASTM-D6751 driven since new
GC automated kit since August, '05
Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock :)
September 9, 2006 - 10:14am
#14
Just to bump this thread again,
I found that the current draw for a facet pump is in the vicinity of 0.75 amp running, so figure another maybe 0.5 amp starting, that bbeing generous i think.
Anyone else with a VW TDI that has tried this mod or is thinking of it now.... any inputs?
Lee
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
__________________________________________
Regan - 1985? MB 300D, Grey Market - Not greasin yet, barely rinnin in fact
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup
September 15, 2006 - 10:36am
#15
OK, So now i have the facet pump and the blue fuel line. and a couple of barbed "T"s to put it all together. Now im still waiting for the check valve.
Scott, if you are reading this thread, what type of GP are you using? I am using a autolite 1110 and it doesnt seem to be getting as hot as the kind of situations you have described. I have had several times when I switched off my VO flow and the GP htr was still on. It just ran the thermostat up and switched off but i never saw any super hot heating of the fuel lines and it seemed fine again when I used it the next time.
I would like to see a hotter temp out of my GP htr especially when I use the facet pump to "preheat" the mini loop. I am wondering if whatever GP you are using might be a hotter tip than my 1110's.
Considering my history with the GP htr I have now, I am still kindof leaning toward using the GP htr relay to switch the facet at the same time. It would just be SOOOOOOO much easier. Of course thats until i have a gallon of hot vo in my engine compartment and leaky melted o boot.
SO whats your GP you use?
Lee
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
__________________________________________
Regan - 1985? MB 300D, Grey Market - Not greasin yet, barely rinnin in fact
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup
September 16, 2006 - 8:32am
#16
OK, so now i have the facet pump, i have the blue fuel line, AND i just received my EC20B check valve.
NOW..... how the heck do you adjust this check valve so that it opens at a lesser pressure. I have been spinning the little white "X" thingy inside but it doesnt seem to have any effect. I ahve also been trying to spin the snap ring that holds the spring tensioner in place but it seems to be in a cut groove and not in a thread, so it seems to just turn and turn and turn with no effect. It still takes a LOT of pressure with my blowing into it for it to even crack open.
Somehow i dont think that the facet will develop enough pressure to get the ball off its seat ina VO flow situation.
What am I doing wrong here with these valves. I bought two of them in case I screwed one up and Im about to try to do just that to see if i can adjust it some other way.
HELP ME MISTER WIZARD!!!!!!!!!!
Lee
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
__________________________________________
Regan - 1985? MB 300D, Grey Market - Not greasin yet, barely rinnin in fact
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup
September 17, 2006 - 4:37am
#17
Scott will be fine, thanks ;)
ACDelco 60G plugs ~$10
Yeah, that "X" thingy on the opposite side of the bearing, which holds the spring is correct, but back it out a bit from the ball a few turns and then thest with a good puff on the ball side... repeat. That spring holder should be seated in the internal threads and not in a groove and backs out with a bit of pressure from small needle-nose pliers, lefty-loosey.
I'm not sure, though, about what the other piece is you're talking about. If I remember correctly, my valve consisted of the brasss housing with internal threads, the ball bearing, a spring and the spring holder (the "X").
Mine's pretty loose, like... pretty loose; only requiring a light puff to move the bearing. I first used it as recieved from the factory and my Facet couldn't, as you described, open the bearing. This is when the blue line was KEY, to see NO movemen t of oil through the Rocki-mod.
Contact me for anything esle, I'll be free soon.
Gotta study... two days to go...
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI
ASTM-D6751 driven since new
GC automated kit since August, '05
Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock :)
September 19, 2006 - 4:25pm
#18
Hey Scott,
How did the boards go? Did you knock em dead??? (Hmmm maybe poor choice of words for a med board)
Hope it went well
I took mine apart tonight and I think my valve is a little different then yours. Mine has a "C" clip ring which sits in a groove arond the middle of the valve body lengthwise.
Under that is a washer which just floats around over the spring and under the c clip. Under that is the spring and under that is the x thingy. And at the bottom is the ball bearing.
SO what i did was take the c clip out and then put it back in the threads above the groove instead of the groove below. Its not perfect thats for sure cause the c clip goes around the thread not exactly meeting where it started out. (Kindof like a MC Escher drawing) but I am pretty sure that it will stay in place considering the low pressures on the system. It took quite a bit to rotate it around manually. Now, with the clip higher, the washer sits higher, therefore the spring sits higher and the x thingy has less pressure against the spring and presto change o, it seems to work with a small puff of air. (Or course I only puffed..... I did not inhale)
(And I did not have sex with that women)
(And it depends on what your definition of "is" is)
Now it remains for me to find some place under my hood to put all this crap. But thats the problem for another day. I am probably not going to get to this mod for like another month now. unless i work it in dribs and drabs.
I have a full month of weekends that are taken up by Jewish holidays and other life stuff. Kindof like boards only not as brainfully painful.
Anyway, hope this works... when it finally is time
Lee
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
__________________________________________
Regan - 1985? MB 300D, Grey Market - Not greasin yet, barely rinnin in fact
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup
September 19, 2006 - 5:27pm
#19
... can. barely. see. need. sleep...
Yup, product change, as you surmised. But, great thinking I was just going to suggest the same if it looked possible. Will get some picks up soon... promise.
Take care.
ps- Is that "X" thingy plastic?? I specifically asked for the above one because it had *no* plastic in it... hmmm.
Did you look at the print marked into the brass of the valve to confirm an EC20B?
I'd call and valvestore and ask what may be up if it is branded as the same valve when mine was sans plastic.
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI
ASTM-D6751 driven since new
GC automated kit since August, '05
Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock :)
September 20, 2006 - 6:13pm
#20
Yeah,
I would say that the x thingy is plastic. It looks like it anyway. Of course it could also be white PTFE teflon. Either way, I think considering the temps in this system i hope it should be ok for to hold the ball bearing in place.
Ill let you know how it works if (when) I get to figuring out where all the bits are going. So far, I have the facet pump mounted to the headlight cover near the front of the EC. I mounted it with rubber bushings on top and bottom of the plastic to hopefully give it some shock absorbtion in the mounting.
I think I have a place for the fuel lines to go now from the OP of the filter to the facet to the fuel supply solenoid. Only thing i have to still figure out is where in the wide wide world of sports is the checdk valve going to be stuck.
Another day, another donut.....
Lee
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
__________________________________________
Regan - 1985? MB 300D, Grey Market - Not greasin yet, barely rinnin in fact
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup
October 7, 2006 - 4:22pm
#21
OK, to bring this thread back from the bottoms.......
I have installed the Rocki Mod and have a boodle of air in the lines. I have installed a vent valve between teh "T" and the valve on the supply side. When the pump is on, it completely aerates the VO flow. The car doesnt seem to give a crap and it runs just fine, but I am still getting flow through the valve in the forward direction when its on VO flow.
So a few questions there Scott.....
WTF?????? It seems like there just keeps getting more air in it. It hasnt been able to get fully air free in the lines. I am going to check my clamps again tomorrow but whenever I go to VO flow the lines to and from the check valve seem about half full of air ad then when I try to purge it with the vent valve, it seems to keep refilling.
I am about this close to saying Fu_k it and getting that vegtherm and putting that in instead.
But the Techno Geek side of me really digs the check valve gizmo.
Maybe i need to reposition the vent valve???
Maybe I need to reposition the check valve???
Maybe I need to remake the connections hose clamps?????
Maybe I need a new hobby????
Maybe I need a big drink the size of my head?????
Maybe I need a few extra Oxy Contin in my diet????
Maybe I need to sell this friggin car and be a gasser again.
I need more power from the dilithium crystals Scotty!!!!!!!
Lee
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
__________________________________________
Regan - 1985? MB 300D, Grey Market - Not greasin yet, barely rinnin in fact
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup
October 8, 2006 - 1:55pm
#22
Hey Lee, would you pls write how your Rocki-mod is linked? I'm a bit confused how you stated your air-purge valve is mounted.
Mine (starting from the GC filter) goes from the GC filter, to the EC20B check valve (just BEFORE the GC solenoid A NC port), to the return line (coming from solenoid B NC port), THEN the GC "T" (WVO return line into feed line), then my glowplug heater, then Facet fuel pump, then air-purge valve/petcock, back to the GC filter... if that makes any sense.
I purge air VERY infrequently now as there is not mouch in teh system. There is some after a WVO filter change, but it eventually disappears.
Are you using clear lines to see where the air is coming from?
Is the air-purge valve dribbling?
I'm unsure what you mean about your solenoid flow comment above, please expand upon this.
Also, plls PM me and I'll draft up a crummy pic for you when I get out of work over the next few.
:)
ps- I'll also post a pic here sometime when I'm able...
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI
ASTM-D6751 driven since new
GC automated kit since August, '05
Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock :)
October 11, 2006 - 9:55am
#23
Well, after a few days of continuing to purge a little mor e air from the system each day, today was the first day that i was able to actually put the rocki mod to the test. I checked and there appeared to be no air in my system this morning, so i turned on the facet pump, verified that it was working, and then started the car on diesel.
I have it plugged in to a zerostart block heater so the warm up pweriod was complete after less than 2 miles of driving. That gave the rocki mod about 5 minutes (more or less) to do its thing. When I switched over to VO flow, the temp went up MUCH MUCH quicker than it ever had before. It raised about 25 degrees in less than a minute or so. It was clicking up about a degree per second for about 15 seconds and then slowing down a bit as it used up the built up stored heat in the VO.
All in all I think that this mod will definitely be a valuable addition to my system and I HEARTILY suggest all VW TDIers to consider installing it as well. It was a pretty straightforward install and it seems (after one days testing anyway) to be a VERY VERY valuable boost to the ramp up in temps for my Jetta TDI.
All Hail ShMcquilkin and his wondermous pal Rocki.........
All hail "The Rocki Mod"!!!!!!!!!!!
Hope you get some sleep soon there Scott, Fridays only a couple of days away
Peace back to you and all
Lee
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
__________________________________________
Regan - 1985? MB 300D, Grey Market - Not greasin yet, barely rinnin in fact
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup
October 12, 2006 - 11:56am
#24
This ones for Scott, who asked.
Its a schematic of how I have set up my "Rocki-Mod"
Lee
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
__________________________________________
Regan - 1985? MB 300D, Grey Market - Not greasin yet, barely rinnin in fact
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup
October 12, 2006 - 2:11pm
#25
Thanks Lee!
My system is a tad different, as I have my heater integrated with the GC looped-return T, and my Facet and then air purge valve are between that T and the GC filter:
***
Solenoid B --> T with input from check valve --> GC return "T" with my GP heater --> Facet --> (I'd put a Vegtherm here when doing future installs) --> T for petcock/petcock itself --> GC filter input port --> output port --> T for output to check valve --> Solenoid A
***
Thanks again!!
:)
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI
ASTM-D6751 driven since new
GC automated kit since August, '05
Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock :)
October 12, 2006 - 5:18pm
#26
No Scott,
Thank you. I just drew the picture, you presented the idea.
It seems that noone else really has much to say about this mod, but after 2 days of testing, I have NEVER seen my temps as hot as quick as consistent before. They seemed almost too high for the amount of time the system was on, so I took my IR temp sensor to the hoses in various places and the IR indicated temps tracked very closely with tthe GC Pre-IP temp monitor. The temps throughout all the hoses were very close to all the other places so its definitely consistent throughout the system.
For now, Im going to leave it as it is which is to say Nekkid, and uninsulated, but as the outside temps start to drop, I guess I will have to insulate to keep my groovy high temps that i am now getting.
Its like vita meata vegamin....... and so tasty too
Scott, as im sure that this thread will now sink into the sunset. I raise my glass of Martell Cordon Bleu Cognac to you in toast. And whenever I get myself up in your neck of the woods I will definitely bring some for you to toast back with.
Hope your next round of med skoolin goes well for you. We can always use some more people in the world that know how to save a life (or a veggie system)
Tell Rocki I am very grateful for his epiphanous moment you guys shared
Lee
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
__________________________________________
Regan - 1985? MB 300D, Grey Market - Not greasin yet, barely rinnin in fact
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup
October 19, 2006 - 12:54pm
#27
Hey Lee,
Still have not found a solution for the fuel flow metering, but checking every morning is not a big deal... for now.
Hope yours is working well and your fine-tuning is dialing it in.
Take care, and thanks!
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI
ASTM-D6751 driven since new
GC automated kit since August, '05
Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock :)
November 3, 2006 - 11:04am
#28
Just added a second GP to my integrated GP heater/looped return "T". Switching over now within a mile @ ~ 170F, even with the 30F mornings here in Maine. Just incredible; how it should be.
Expecting 5000+ miles on my stock tank now even with local driving.
Shwing!
:o)
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI
ASTM-D6751 and WVO driven
Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock :)
Wingnut's TDI How-To thread!
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=60705
The "Rocki-Mod" mini-loop preheating schema:
http://www.greasecar.com/forum_topicview.cfm?frmtopicID=9280
November 3, 2006 - 2:50pm
#29
double post... too quick on the trigger finger
November 3, 2006 - 2:50pm
#30
Hey Scott,
Hows the psychos treating you?
I am having an interesting situation with the rocki mod that is kindof pissing me off. When its in diesel mode, the rocki mod pumps the vo around with no indication of air in the lines. When I switch to VO mode, the vo is about 75% FULL of air bubbles. I done knwo where the heck they are coming from. I would have never even known about it until i started standing on the accelerator. It was fine until right around 100. Then it blipped like a fouling filter. Only diff was I backed of it and there was no loss of power at the lower demand RPM. It drove like normal after backing off. With a clogged filter, even after backing off i would have had no acceleration. After that I took a look at the flow and saw the dam bubbles. I tried my old tried and true method to get rid of them (parking with the nose uphill) and i thought it worked, since i didnt see any bubbles when i checked it in rocki flow mode. Then this afternoon I realized they are there but only in VO flowing mode.
Why would they only show up in VO mode but not when the facet is pushing the vo around the mini loop????
Do you think it migth be my clamps arent tight enough???
I know theres many people that say i have a screw loose. Maybe my clamps are too.
I really want to come up with a better way to vent the air out. It seems like when I tried to vent in the beginning, it only put more air in then it took out.
On a seperate note. I got the RC2 installed and just got delivered my new and improved VAG COM. I have a bunch of trouble shooting to do over the weekend.
So little time..... so much to do.....
Around these parts the loonies are in charge of the ssylum.
And on yet a seperate note, my GF and I are back on. I swear we are like the tennis match of relationships..... Whiplash trying to teell which way the ball is bouncing. AAAAAAhhhhh love :)
Lee
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
__________________________________________
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup - RC2 - Rocki Mod
November 6, 2006 - 2:53pm
#31
I figured since so much info was put into this thread I would add a bit of my own.
Here is your "long lost link" Scott.
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/480599/954
It probably is expensive, might be better than wearing out your hood latch release?
November 6, 2006 - 4:49pm
#32
To Billy,
Nice, thanks! I'll call and ask soon as their website has no updates on this series.
To Lee,
Try and see exactly where the bubbles start, you have clear lines, right?
If they're only seen in veggie mode, then it has to be traced from the tank to solenoid A. Make sure the looped return is connected snugly, too, of course.
LOL, yeah, the rotation's going well and fun, but I keep questioning how F-ed up *I am* when I see some traits that I have in the patients that I'm assessing! :)
Congrats on the girlie... you mean she doesn't mind your veggie habits!?!?
;)
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI
ASTM-D6751 and WVO driven
Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock :)
Wingnut's TDI How-To thread!
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=60705
The "Rocki-Mod" mini-loop preheating schema:
http://www.greasecar.com/forum_topicview.cfm?frmtopicID=9280
November 9, 2006 - 10:23pm
#33
Well Scott,
You hit the nail just to the right of the head. I checked and my Rocki Mod return "T" got a little sloppy since it was originally installed. I got almost a full turn on the clamp nut. I snugged all the other clamps I could get my wrench onto just to be safe and was able to get a little rotation out of several. It seems to be doing its job once again, but I may have discovered another problem. I hooked up my newly acquired VAG-COM and came to find out that at high torque/RPMs in 4th or 5th, I seem to be starving my IP. It goes to a constant 94.4% duty cycle. Im wondering if its because of the bypassing that I have been getting with the rocki mod. I think it might be another reason to go to a solenoid valve instead. Not sure. It only shows up when Im stomping on it for a protracted period of time in 4th or 5th (which of course with the new RC2 is quite often :) ... today the chip, tomorrow the IP, nozzles, und ze VORLD!!!!!... power corrupts, upsolute power corrupts upsolutely)
Cant be bothered with it right now anyway, as I am working with another TDIer from my old hometown (aobut 15 miles from where I live now) and replacing the timing belt/water pump/ tensioners and pulleys tomorrow. That was something that Jeff discovered when he was putting in my RC2 on 10/21 up in CT. The Timing belt was done only 35000 miles ago but it was done by schlocko mechanic that I found to have ripped me off on other stuff. I know that he didnt do the water pump which is recommended at the TB change, but it was the tensioner pulley that was making a REALLY bad noise, which sounded like the bearings in it were shot. So to have some piece of mind, and another 100,000 miles to the next one, its coming out tomorrow.
BTW, The weather on LI was nice and warm today and hit 70F. The Rocki mod kept my oil a nice and toasty 170+ without having to purge for over an hour at a time. Insulation is key.
Good luck all
Lee
-------------------------
Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
__________________________________________
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup - RC2 - Rocki Mod
November 10, 2006 - 5:54am
#34
Are you keeping the Mod's fuel pump on when in veggie mode? I do, and with my real-time restriction gauge monitoring inches of vacuum on the the IP, I have seem that the combo of the fuel pump and the extra push to the fuel provided by the looped return keep the IP working much LESS hard (less vacuum) than with running from my stock tank.
When you say that you're starving your IP in 4th and 5th when moshing the throttle, dya mean on veggie?
Try some scans while on your stock tank if you haven't... betcha might see the same thing, maybe even a bit worse.
I've found that the biggest factor restriction my fuel to teh IP is actually the fuel line run from the stock tank to the engine bay, those little metal lines. When I clean my injectors and pull (and return) fuel out of a bottle within the engine bay, the IP restriction drops like a rock (therefore being good!). But when I re hook up the lines from teh stock tank, there's a gain of about 8" of vacuum when running the stock tank's fuel.
I don't think that the Mod has anything to do with the starvation (and what measuring block are you registering in Vag-Com?). Unless the check valve is WAY too loose and allowing veggie into the return system from the FEED side when running veggie, I don't see how the Mod would do anything to increase IP strain. Please advise. Maybe even disconnect the Mod and see how the numbers look, I bet it'll show little change.
Good luck on the TB, sorry that that happened. Shoddy work from folks SUCKS!!!!! Grrrrrr.
Please keep us posted...
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI - Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock :)
Wingnut's TDI How-To thread!
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=60705
The "Rocki-Mod" mini-loop preheating schema: http://www.greasecar.com/forum_topicview.cfm?frmtopicID=9280
November 10, 2006 - 8:12am
#35
About billybaru13's link to the Orange Research switch I just rec'd the info from the distributor (Thanks again Billy, good find!):
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/480599/989
1/4" NPT threads
Temp-rated to 200F :)
Max pressure = 1000 psig (200 bar)
Available with both SPDT (single pole double throw) which can be wired EITHER N.O. (normally open) or N.C. (normally closed) on the same device
and SPST (single pole single throw) which is FIXED
N.O. or N.C. option
[so the fixed N.O. would be what I'll want as I want the circuit to close when flow is active so it'll light and LED when the Rocki-Mod is flowing fuel while prewamring and before running on veggie]
Size (inches) = 1.00x1.00x2.75 sweet!
Flow rate actuations available (in GPM);
0.10
0.25
0.50
0.75
1.0
1.5
Brass units are $69.00
Stainless are $78.00
Contact for more info:
Jeff Riden
MERIDEN COOPER CORP
800-466-8448
Peace.
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI - Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock :)
Wingnut's TDI How-To thread!
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=60705
The "Rocki-Mod" mini-loop preheating schema: http://www.greasecar.com/forum_topicview.cfm?frmtopicID=9280
November 10, 2006 - 6:59pm
#36
shmcquilkin,
Just want to thank you for the information on the Rocki-Mod.
I to became concerned about the grease temperatures after a friend's IP broke and she paid a fortune to a VW dealer for a new one. I installed a temperature gauge and was shocked to find out that I got to around 100 'F into the IP. I replumbed the GC kit for series operation instead of parallel, installed the Rocki-Mod, installed an Autozone electric fuel pump ($31) and a Dana Lin Scott "Little Devil; glowplug heater(second set of plans I bought from him and I have been very pleased with both of them). I now run about 140 F' into the IP. I have ordered a 16 plate FPHE and that should get me to around 175 'F.
I did make a some enhancements that may be useful to other users.
1. I installed a bypass line around the pump and gp heater with a normally closed valve so that should the pump fail I can open the valve and still burn grease. (the electic pump is a reciprocating positive displacement pump which will not pass flow through it if it is not running)
2. Wired the pump and gc heater on separate switches so I can use the pump independent of the gc heater for filling and venting the fuel filter. I also put a switch in the engine compartment in series with the pump circuit so I could operate the pump from the engine compartment instead of having to go back and forth from the car and engine compartment.
3. Wired the gc heater switch to receive it's power from the pump circuit so that when the pump is on the gc heater has power. If the pump is off or fails the gc heater has no power.
4. Installed the tempature sending unit using a brass t fitting in the fuel line after the GC filter, this allowed me to use the GC fuel filter 1/8" instrument tap for a small vent/shutoff valve for venting the filter into a container.
5. Installed a vacuum gauge upstream of the IP, great indicator of either fuel filter condition.
Thanks for all the information.
Rock
November 10, 2006 - 10:48pm
#37
Now *that* is what I like to hear, well done and excellent ideas!
Firstly, I commend you and am honored by your dedication to your work. I'm also tickled to know that everyone in your future who requests your insights will be answered by genuine desires to spread this good word... the safe way, which is the best way!
Even if your flatplate is enroute, I'd also consider adding another glowplug to your Little Devil, so that you may have more control over your heat... or, I bet that you'll just do the same trick with FPHE by using a bypass system somehow, eh!?! ;o) The new GP could be either switched on its own (I run at *most* two plugs/40amp relay with THICK wire, like 10 gauge, on the hot line from the battery with a 40 amp fuse... blew a couple of 30s with two glowplugs on a relay already :) or just added to the present one with a pigtail, making this second one the "end of the line" for the +12V signal from the relay post 30, with GP #1 in your system being between post 30 and GP #2.
My system's insulated up the wazoo, including the tank, with three GPs (setup in two Little Devils [LD]) and my radiator 80% blocked, and I have more heat than I need in only about 10 minutes when using the Rocki-Mod.
You'd be AMAZED at how nearly useless the stock coolant temp gauge is. The truth is in the oil temp, which can be up over 280F and the water temp doesn't budge!! Yikes!
Granted, I'm running an OMI, Passat oil cooler and an AMSOIL BMK-11 oil bypass (with the can just in front of the left, front wheel... nice space here to keep the horns company) so the radiator block doesn't overheat the oil really at all, but does allow it to come up MUCH more quickly in the morning... which is an important point for me as I don't care what temp the coolant is, it's the oil temp that seems to be the best "inertia" helping keep the heat in the WVO.
I have my thermostat, which is a White-Rodgers *adjustable* Model 3L05-10 ($12; http://www.patriot-supply.com ) on the LD closest to the IP. Sweet!
http://www.white-rodgers.com/wrdhom/common/ptech/furnace/furnace_12.htm
The path of energy in my heaters goes like this:
Ignition hot +12V (from the "75X post" in the TDI) --> GP switch #1 with an LED in the switch --> through firewall --> White-Rodgers thermostat mounted on top of LD housing GP #1 --> relay #1 --> GP #1 --> through firewall back to dash --> GP switch #2 with an LED in the switch --> back through firewall to relay #2 --> LD #2 with two GPs --> ground
So, if you draw this out, you'll see that my GP switch #2 allows me to see if the Little Devils are firing or not. If the LDs are on and the thermostat/snap-disc is still closed, then GP switches 1+2 both have LEDs which are lit. BUT, if the snap-disc opens when LD#1's surface gets hot enough and therefor shuts down all power to BOTH LDs, then the GP switch #2 LED will blink off with swicth #1 LED still lit.
With this I can tell when my thermostat is working in what range of temps, and can adjust it to fit the day's weather's needs.
If warm out, I don't even have to switch on LD #2, as LD #1 will do just fine to maintain temps. If cool enough, I switch both LDs on and then monitor when the snap-disc works, then keep the oil in the 170-190F range pre-IP. Has worked very well for me.
Poached from another thread, but important to see here me thinks:
Here's my setup, including GC automated system which I mounted in the left, center vent. You can also see my fuel pump and GP heater switches in the dummy blocks where the seat heaters usual are. I have also added an A-pillar pod for my real-time filter restriction gauge.
(Column gauges are boost and EGT; triple panel is motor oil temp and pressure and WVO temp just before the IP; the automated panel has WVO fuel tank level, GC filter cap temp, voltmeter, automated switching parameters, purge times, etc... the radio is out of a
November 11, 2006 - 12:22am
#38
I think you are right about using two glowplugs. I like the way you wired them. I was just worried about the current draw. I'll see how the FPHE works out before I start that mod.
I also used the snap disc thermostat but I used a metal to metal epoxy with tie wraps as back up. I am curious how durable the bond is under heatup and cooldown conditions.
I got my VDO gauges from egauges.com.
Have a good one.
November 12, 2006 - 8:42am
#39
holy crap thats a lot of guages. And you gave up a heating vetn for the automated system. There is no way that car would be mistaken for a stock car :) Looks great tho.
Just remember when it comes to temps before the IP you can expect about a 30 degree increase in temp inside the pump. Dont go too overboard with heating.
-------------------------
01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Veg 04-06 now mixing into the HHO
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html
November 12, 2006 - 11:13am
#40
Yeah, good call and thanks. In a previous post somewhere along the line I mentioned how, when I was first adjusting my GP heaters, that I had a runaway and saw a registered ~230F pre-IP... D'OH!
Right when I caught it, and before the solder on the GP heater grounds started to melt and drip (been there, too), I obeserved a CEL blick up and thought I was a goner.
Ended up only being the IP internal temp sender (that $6 jobbie), which was easily replaced out... scarey to go in the IP for the first time, though!
I make sure that my pre-IP temps never hit 190F now, and my target temp is 175F... it's been running just swell for nearly 30k miles.
Want to rack the IP back open and check for any residue or other issues, but am banking on there being minimal (hopefully!) as I clean the injectors every 10k miles. FWIW, I change my oil every ~ 20k miles as I run periodic analyses and have an Amsoil BMK-11 bypass, and use TBN and not gross mileage to detrmine change intervals.
Thanks again, hope that you're having a great weekend.
Peace.
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI - Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock
Wingnut's HOW TO thread (thank you!)
Some WVO installation considerations
November 12, 2006 - 2:10pm
#41
Quote:
Originally posted by: TDIguy
holy crap thats a lot of guages. And you gave up a heating vetn for the automated system. There is no way that car would be mistaken for a stock car :) Looks great tho.
Just remember when it comes to temps before the IP you can expect about a 30 degree increase in temp inside the pump. Dont go too overboard with heating.
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01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Veg 04-06 now mixing into the HHO
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html
30 dg increase in temp in an IP is highly unlikely. Most IP's, the way they are mounted, is mostly hanging out in free space, only the gear drive portion of the IP is attached to the engine block so any heat transfer from the engine to the IP is minimal at best. My measurements indicate that the IP actually removes heat from the preheated veg. If you saw a 30 deg incrrease in your IP, it was most likely due to operator error such as leaving the Vegtherm "on" thinking it was "off", or reading the Vagcom wrong, or you had a Vagcom malfunction.
November 12, 2006 - 2:22pm
#42
shmcquilkin, why not take the money you save by not doing oil analysis and change your oil more often? 20k between oil changes is a long time especially running veg, synthetic or not.
November 12, 2006 - 5:11pm
#43
Because I try to live as a minimalist environmentalist weenie and don't... with performance tendencies... good mix, huh?
With analysis, I'm able to monitor the oil's properties so I see no issue with extended drain intervals if the oil's still holding up.
I've heard both sides of the IP heating or not. To be safe, like I mentioned, I keep it on the light side of 180F and feel good about it there.
Thanks for the input. :)
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'03 Jetta GL TDI - Stock? Yeah, *sure* it's stock
Wingnut's HOW TO thread (thank you!)
Some WVO installation considerations
November 13, 2006 - 4:12am
#44
Quote:
Originally posted by: 604TD
Quote:
Originally posted by: TDIguy
holy crap thats a lot of guages. And you gave up a heating vetn for the automated system. There is no way that car would be mistaken for a stock car :) Looks great tho.
Just remember when it comes to temps before the IP you can expect about a 30 degree increase in temp inside the pump. Dont go too overboard with heating.
-------------------------
01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Veg 04-06 now mixing into the HHO
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html
30 dg increase in temp in an IP is highly unlikely. Most IP's, the way they are mounted, is mostly hanging out in free space, only the gear drive portion of the IP is attached to the engine block so any heat transfer from the engine to the IP is minimal at best. My measurements indicate that the IP actually removes heat from the preheated veg. If you saw a 30 deg incrrease in your IP, it was most likely due to operator error such as leaving the Vegtherm "on" thinking it was "off", or reading the Vagcom wrong, or you had a Vagcom malfunction.
Where have you been? i post my personal observances and experiances. I can get a reading of 30 degrees hotter inside the IP on my car as a normal happening. Do you understand the termradiant heat? I am guessing no. If you have ever used a vag com and you odviously have not there is no real chance for operator error unless for some reason i forget how to read english numbering system. Compaired to the inaccurate temp reading from the sensor outside the pump the temp guage inside the pump will normally read about 30 degrees hotter once up to temp. Before the car is up to temp the variance well changes as it is going up. When the car is dead cold is when the temps are the closest. I have wasted a lot of time testing this out. If you really want to toss my findings to the wayside then fine have fun buying another IP because yours overheated.
BTW had youhave ever studied or learned basic firefighting you would easily understand how anything in close proximity to the engine WILL absorb heat from the engine. The IP on a TDI is maybe 7 inches awey from the engine not exactly just floating around in free space. Its also connected to the engine by the nice metal fuel lines. Not exactly a bad conductor of heat there. Maybe a MB IP does not get warm from the engine but TDI's are totally different. Untill you buy a vag com and a temp guage and install them on a car and start makeing similar comparisons you should not toss out other peoples findings.
-------------------------
01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Veg 04-06 now mixing into the HHO
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html
November 13, 2006 - 4:24am
#45
you know there is a mod you can do that will give you a oil life monitoring meter on the cluster. It ends up costing almost 1k i think once all is said and done buying all new parts. So if you can find the right used parts it would be much cheaper. However finding the right used parts in america would be highly unlikely. European cars are so much more advanced its not funny i have heard that its common for them to have the oil life meter in them from factory. They also consider 30mpg to be absolutly horrible milage.
-------------------------
01 vw jetta TDI : RC II : VR6 Clutch
Vag-Com tool at home
Veg 04-06 now mixing into the HHO
Another good veg site
http://fryertofuel.hypermart.net/store/page6.html
November 13, 2006 - 10:36am
#46
Yeah, it's the new MFA cluster and oil pan replacements. Would be sweet...
VW4Motion can get them over at Fred's (TDIClub), but like you mentioned... pricey!
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI (Stock? Yeah... *sure* it's stock! :)
Wingnut's HOW TO thread!
GC kit install considerations
November 13, 2006 - 2:56pm
#47
Just to make sure is this right?
www.billyvandervalk.com/veggie/rocky.JPG
And if it is why do you need the check valve?
November 13, 2006 - 5:11pm
#48
Hey Billy, where your check valve is in the pic when on veggie you will get either return from B going to A via the vertical bridge, or vice versa.
Placing the check valve in that vertical bridge with the arrow pointing down is what you need so there's no true sharing of fluids between the valves through that vertical bridge.
You'll also want to place some kind of petcock in the Rocki loop to purge air every once in a while. Looks good, though, thanks for another pic (and that link to Orange Reseach again!).
Peace.
-------------------------
'03 Jetta GL TDI (Stock? Yeah... *sure* it's stock! :)
Wingnut's HOW TO thread!
GC kit install considerations
November 15, 2006 - 3:28pm
#49
Quoe:
"Where have you been? i post my personal observances and experiances. I can get a reading of 30 degrees hotter inside the IP on my car as a normal happening."
Is this from the Vagcom that you so dearly trust? Have you put one hand on the fuel line going into the IP and the other hand on the injection lines coming out of the IP? Did it feel 30 deg hotter? I did that and the IP out lines were always colder than the input line and that is what prompted me to take thermocouple measurements which confirmed my IP sheds heat from the heated VO.
Quote:
"Do you understand the termradiant heat? I am guessing no. If you have ever used a vag com and you odviously have not there is no real chance for operator error unless for some reason i forget how to read english numbering system. Compaired to the inaccurate temp reading from the sensor outside the pump the temp guage inside the pump will normally read about 30 degrees hotter once up to temp. Before the car is up to temp the variance well changes as it is going up. When the car is dead cold is when the temps are the closest. I have wasted a lot of time testing this out. If you really want to toss my findings to the wayside then fine have fun buying another IP because yours overheated."
Radiant heat is not going to matter when the car is moving at 75 mph with an ambient temp of 20 F. Yes the IP could add heat to the VO on a 100 degree day in gridlock traffic but not when the car is moving. Didn't you lose 3 IP's and one engine while running veg? Did you ever find out why all the carnage?
Quote:
"BTW had youhave ever studied or learned basic firefighting you would easily understand how anything in close proximity to the engine WILL absorb heat from the engine."
Again, not when the car is moving.
Quote:
"Maybe a MB IP does not get warm from the engine but TDI's are totally different. Untill you buy a vag com and a temp guage and install them on a car and start makeing similar comparisons you should not toss out other peoples findings."
I have plenty of temp gauges used in my testing. Is 5 thermocouples enough?
I think in another post you tell people to run a 160 F thermostat in their TDIs. You could get away with that in the summer but for winter use a 160F thermostat is way too cold and the engine will slowly die because of sludge buildup in the lube oil due to insufficient engine temperature. Maybe that's how you killed your engine?
November 15, 2006 - 4:48pm
#50
Be NICE for shit's sake, and please don't screw with this thread with personal gripes!!!!!!
Take it elsewhere if you can't be constrcutive... any of you!
It amazes me how tightly wound and defensive folks are... CHILL!
Just chill, please.
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'03 Jetta GL TDI (Stock? Yeah... *sure* it's stock! :)
Wingnut's HOW TO thread!
GC kit install considerations
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KCL,
Welcome to the wonderful world of TDI greasin with a standard GC setup. I also drive an 02 jetta and have the pre-IP temp sensor from GC installed. Your numbers for temperature and my numbers are almost identical. Instead of the vegtherm i have installed a GP heater but its the same end product.
Basically our cars run cool and take a lot to heat up the VO. I notice if I run mine for over an hour or so in stop and go driving then i start to actually cycle my GP heater (thermostat controled 190 off/ 160 on) if not running that long the GP heater is on pretty much all the time.
I just last weekend switched my GP heater from after the GC filter to before the GC filter and was successful in seeing higher temps faster. I think this is because i took off the post GP heater fillter that i had to protect the IP from anything flaking off the GP. That reduced my fuel flow restriction i think.
I am considering putting another GP heater back after the GC filter for when the weather starts getting cool again. Im not too keen on spending a grand to replace an IP that got VO that was too cold thrown at it too soon after starting up.
I also reccommend a block heater (TDI HEater, Zerostart, several brands available) and running it in the overnight on a timer to warm the coolant up for about 2-3 hours before you go in the AM. This serves the extra purpose of giving almost instant heat when its cold out. (THIS IS A HUGE PLUS IN THE TDI JETTA!!!)
SInce you said you only have about 270 miles on the thing so far, I warn you to expect a feeling of power loss and sluggishness taht comes with your first clogged filter. Make surer when you replace the filter that you tighten down all the hose clamps you can get your hands on. The rubber softens when it warms and after a few cycles of this can start letting air into the system on hard acceleration especially. Tighten them down and you will avoid one of my first pitfalls.
Good luck and welcome to the monkey house :)
Lee
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Novelty+Economy+Environment= NEE.....
I am a Knight that says NEE
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Regan - 1985? MB 300D, Grey Market - Not greasin yet, barely rinnin in fact
NoName - 2002 Jetta TDI - Greasecar setup